Reply To: Rules Screw Ups

[Tommy Briggs]

Jeffrey your arguments are all over the place and now you are bringing a whole new argument to the table. I said you were wrong when you said, “A player hits his ball into the rough which has grown excessively long because the course was unable to mow it”. The course did not declare the area as Abnormal Course Condition / Ground Under Repair. You said because you know the rough is normally shorter you could arbitrarily declare the area as ACC / GUR and take free relief. I said you could not. That is the argument we have been debating. Nothing else is being debated.

You said, “the ball was lost in the unmown thick rough and you declared the area as ACC becasue the rough was longer than normal. (rule 16.1) Now you argue “the ball is embedded (plugged) in the thick rough and rule 16.3a applies”. However, in order to invoke rule 16.3a your ball must NOT be embedded in an area that is not cut to fairway height or less, UNLESS the course / committee declare a local rule in play, which you originally said the course / committee did not mention anything about this area. I said the course / committee can designate an area (areas) and invoke a local rule YOU CANNOT.

Rule 7.3 If a ball might be yours but you cannot identify it as it lies, you may lift the ball to identify it. But the spot of the ball must first be marked, and the ball must not be cleaned more than needed to identify it. YOU HAVE TO IDENTIFY YOUR BALL IN ORDER TO TAKE RELEIF.
I said the course/committee can designate an area (areas) as ACC/GUR and invoke a local rule YOU CANNOT.

Playing in Florida it is common to hit balls into palm trees and the ball gets lodged and stays in the tree. If you can identify the ball is yours, you can drop and play it as an unplayable lie. IF YOU CANNOT ABSOLUTELY IDENTIFY THE BALL IS YOURS, it is lost, even if you can see a ball that you believe is yours. You can always try to climb the tree to retrieve it. Even if everyone says they saw it hit the tree and everyone agrees the ball has to be lodged in the tree. This exact situation happened many times during WGC at Trump Doral.

Rule 16.4 If you reasonably believe that your ball lies in a condition where free relief is allowed under the Rules, but you cannot decide that without lifting your ball, you may mark the spot and lift the ball to see if relief is allowed. The lifted ball must not be cleaned

Rule 18.2? If a ball is found within the three minute time but it is uncertain whether it is the player’s ball:
The player must promptly attempt to identify the ball (see Rule 7.2) and is allowed a reasonable time to do so, even if that happens after the three-minute search time has ended.
This includes a reasonable time to get to the ball if the player is not where the ball is found.
If the player does not identify his or her ball in that reasonable time, THE BALL IS LOST.

Before you said the committee does not have the time to mark every area or bring it to the field through an announcement or inclusion in the rules sheet, now you are saying “If the committee has deemed . . . . “. You originally said you had the right even if the course/ committee ignored the condition OR AREAS to arbitrarily ON YOUR OWN invoke the Abnormal Ground Condition rule. I said numerous times, before the tournament begins it is easy for the course to announce, “because of abnormal weather conditions . . . .”. I also said the committee could include in their rules sheet, “because of abnormal weather conditions . . . . “. So now you agree with me, the committee has to be involved?

Jeffrey Like I said it is all good. We are debating a rule about a lost ball and your ability as a player to designate an area or areas abnormal course condition.
Lets stick to one single argument and if you still think you are right stop changing your position, lets meet at the 19th hole, bring cash ($1,000.00 okay with you?) and we will resolve this once and for all winner takes all. I will still buy you a drink. As Bob said we can find Lew and clear this up easily.

Or just let it go and I’ll meet you at the 19th hole and buy you a drink anyway, but you will not win the original argument.