Flagstick

[Roger Hallquist]

Scott, I see the rules for the tourney, tee times, four players, etc., but saw no mention of the flagstick. I know last year it had to remain in, which was one reason I did not attend, but was wondering about this year. I hope it can be removed.

[Danny Fox]

Roger I’m with you on this. I know here in Kentucky we can take them out or leave them in.

[William Aleshire Jr.]

Roger,

Personally like leaving the flag in and have had no issues with anyone verifying that the ball would have gone in if the flag would have been pulled. AKA not loosing any strokes because of it and if anything it has helped on occasion.

I am curious to the reasons why leaving the flag in is so concerning to people…

Please advise,

[Walter White]

During tournament compition, not all competors would agree it may have gone in IF flag was pulled.
For instance, you putt a ball up hill with a firm putt, no flag it hits back of cup and goes in. With flag in, it hits stick and bounces off. The ball did not go in, no woulda coulda, it did not go.
Pulling flag is alway the best option. You do hve a choice of leaving it in if you want when you putt. That the reason pulling flag has all ways been there. There Use to be a penalty for hitting the flag stick if putting on green too I believe.

[William Aleshire Jr.]

Hmm.. During these time when for obvious health reasons we as honest rule abiding golfers are required to leave the flags in. Then the situation you described would be a holed shot. Period. If one golfer out of the 4 doesn’t agree then the majority would rule over that call. of it is a 50/50 split then it would have to go to a final ruling by the tournament officials.

Once the restrictions due to COVID are over and the option to pull or not pull are reinstated then I can see that the situation as described would be a missed shot. Since it was a choice to leave the pin in and then having to deal with the consequences of that decision.

Again during these times when required to leave the pin we all should be flexible enough to understand and make the needed exceptions to the sport to be able to still play and compete on even ground.

In addition , Yes there Used to be a rule and penalty for not pulling the Pin when on the green, but remember that rule no longer exists so there are new rules and possible scenarios that will come about due to it.
Rule 13.2a(2), “There will no longer be a penalty if a ball played from the putting green hits a flagstick left in the hole.” Players will still have the option to remove the flagstick or to have someone tend the pin and remove it after the ball is struck.

[William Aleshire Jr.]

Dave Pelz: Original Pin In/Pin Out test in 1990, and published the results in the December issue of GOLF Magazine. The testing was performed with a special putting device built to roll putts accurately aimed with a laser—and a true, pure roll—from two feet away. We rolled putts at different speeds hitting different parts of the pin on flat, uphill and downhill sloping greens. The test results were conclusive: You will hole a higher percentage of putts when you leave the flagstick in.

The reason for this effect is that a significant amount of energy is lost from a putt’s speed when the ball hits a fiberglass flagstick. The speed-loss enables gravity to pull the slower moving ball down into the hole more often. Even though balls have changed since my testing, holes and flagsticks have not, and the “energy-loss” effect will still win the day.

To make you feel better about leaving the pin in, think about how many long putts and chips you’ve seen crash into the pin and still stay in the hole. If you’re watching golf on TV, you’ve also seen several shots fly into the hole directly from the fairway and stay in.

[Walter White]

I agree during Thse times it should be left in. At courses around me, the rules have been lited and you can remove pin if you want to.
Now, I believe it might be a choice of weather the person putting wants it in or out. Which ever they decide, I will still be there:) I hope all will enjoy the World AM.
Except for the pins with the real shallow cups, I have not had a lot of problems.I just prefer it out like some of the others.
I do like Mr. Pelz for sure. Thanks for the history, I had not seen that one. I do not watch a lot on TV.

[William Aleshire Jr.]

10-4.. The game must go on!

It will be nice when we can return to some sort of normal what ever that normal may look like.

[Tommy Briggs]

Having played last year at the World Am and this year at the March Championship, I can tell you that if the ball does not come to rest IN THE HOLE, it is not considered holed, and you must play your ball where it comes to rest. It is no different than in a normal round pre-Covid and you hit the pin, it enters the hole and bounces out, it is played from where the ball comes to rest and is NOT considered holed..
My friend Jim from the FSGA if he reads this will chime in, but there is not a single competition played in the United States of America where you do not play the ball from where it comes to rest regardless of whether you “think” it would have gone in.

USGA RULES 6.5
A player has completed a hole:
In stroke play, when the player holes out under Rule 3.3c.
The definition of HOLED
When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green.
When the Rules refer to “holing out ” or “hole out,” it means when the player’s ball is holed.
For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green).

[Mike Sigmon]

Hey Tommy hope all is well on your end…I as you have never heard of any kind of rule where if the other 3 people in your group say that would have gone in if the flag was not in and it be counted as a putt being held…All putts in any tournament competition rounds must come to rest in the hole unless there is a total max score on a hole…

[Mike Cheeseman]

Exactly

[Tommy Briggs]

Mike I am well, fully vaccinated and doing great, thanks for asking.

You have never heard of such a rule because there is no such rule in any form of organized golf, period.

Like a mulligan per round or rolling the ball over in the fairways are not rules that exist in any golf world except for some Sunday game played among friends

[Danny Fox]

Even Last years WA, the ball had to be in the holed. There was no if it hit the flag stick it was good.

[Mike Cheeseman]

Definitely. If it not holed then it’s not holed. Hit it again. The rules are plain and simple on this one. In the hole, not well it might of went in so I am counting it in. NOT. Play it as it lies unless it’s lift clean and cheat.

[Roger Hallquist]

I did not mean for this post to argue the merits of flagstick in/out, I am only looking for the rule from the WA staff. I believe it comes down to personal preference and I prefer out, as do the majority of pros, as that is what they are used to playing. I also do hope that it is NOT left to the individual course as that would be inconsistent with the tournament. WA staff, pleas advise.

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