FLIGHT 30 player didn't play by the rules and didn't get DQ'ed

[Mike StClair]

I played at legends parkland today 9-1-16, on one hole KT hit a ball into the marsh, dropped another and hit it into the marsh, dropped another and hit it on the green, drove around to the other side of the marsh and he saw that his first ball went through so he started over to play that ball, that is when I told him he couldn’t play that one because he never said he was hitting a provisional ball, he should have played the ball on the green but he didn’t, I told the person that kept his score not to sign his score card but he did anyway and KT signed it and left. I told the legends staff about it and they said they would ask their pro, I went back about 30 minutes later and they didn’t know his name so I gave it to them again and they wrote it down this time, they also said they would let the world am handle it, he finished 4th in his flight and should have been dq’ed, who dropped the ball here legends or the world am, This is totally wrong and there will probably never be anything done about it

[Jay Seifert]

Mike – Sounds like the course didn’t follow through. The players in your group didn’t protect your flight. You could have and in hindsight probably should have spoken to a member of the rules committee at the 19th hole that night to help protect the field. They would have pulled you and the other players in your foursome in to discuss what happened.

[Mike StClair]

Jay I understand what you are saying but I drove home to beat the storm, I thought that the issue would be taken care of by the legends staff, myself and the scorer explained what he did, they did say they would take care of it just seemed to me like they didn’t care, so I’m just assuming the world am ignored it, I was just trying to protect the field, that’s all

[Jay Seifert]

Mike – I don’t think that there is any question that the WA staff would care VERY MUCH about it. The problem here sounds like a “course issue” where they simply failed to notify the WA committee properly. s you can imagine it’s difficult to run such a complex tourney and the WA staff does rely heavily on the partnership of the courses. 99% of the course management do the “right thing” and follow up but every once in a while something like this happens that is simply not raised up to the WA committee in a timely fashion so they simply don’t know anything about it. Without a player there to “catch” the error (like you or someone from your group) at the 19th hole, it’s easy to see how something like this could have happened. My advice is to remain positive, diligient and to notify the WA committee if you have ANY questions or doubts. You CAN call them pretty much ANY time so, in theory, you could have called them from the road on your way home if you wanted to ensure that the guy didn’t get away with it.

Having played in this for nearly 15 total years I have called them after a round and I have been called after a round for confirmations (lucky enough to make finals in back-to-back 4 & 5 years ago) so I have that number on my phone.

Bottom line is to remain positive about it all and to try to protect the field where you are able. Hopefully we will see you back here next year with a few new friends!

[Bob Newman]

This is the same course that put the wrong hard copy for that day’s play in the carts(nor did they have the carts ready for play when we arrived–30 min late getting off). It does not surprise me that the club failed to notify the WA staff about this. Legends is strictly for tourist play. My group had 2 carts go down during the round. This is just another example of the local pros not complying with what the WA staff request of them. I will take Jeff’s word anytime that specific instructions are given to the local pros about how to conduct the “tournament” but the locals just do what they are accustom to doing..

[Bob Newman]

PS—the committee can still act on this, will not be easy to contact all parties, but is doable.

[Mike StClair]

I will contact first thing tuesday morning and post what they say.

[Tom Jorjorian]

Mike, the fact that he did not say the word “provisional” is irrelevant. The instant he dropped another ball it became the ball in play, and then the next ball became the ball in play after that.
A provisional can only be used for a ball potentially out-of-bounds or lost OUTSIDE a hazard. This may be the rule that the most people have the problem understanding. It came up twice during my play in flight 14.

[Bob Newman]

Mike, they will want to know how the marsh was marked-lateral hazard or no marking. This is probably going to have to be resolved by Lew, the head rules guy. He will know the correct questions to ask(doubt the pros knew how to handle it). In my opinion, he put another ball in play under 27-1(deamed to have put a ball in play under Stroke & Distance by playing from where previous ball was played. If it was a lateral and he was virtually certain it was in the hazard, same result if he played from previous shot. He had the option to go across and look prior to taking any action. I would love to see players having to come into scouting area with all in group to go over the cards(this is the correct procedure in most tournament play) but once again, the courses are not accustomed to doing what is correct. It is my opinion that the majority of players do not really want to play by the strict rules of golf buy by how they play at home.

[Landis Courington]

The WA should put a condensed version of the rules of golf in each gift bag or,at least, give everyone a link that would allow us to print out the condensed version.

[Bob Newman]

the rule book has a “quick Guide to the Rules” starting on page 18. the USGA also has some small type booklets on the rules that fit easily into your bag. it is not hard to find all sorts of things that will help you learn the rules. In SC the CGA visits various courses in SC each year in Feb & March with rules seminars and I would think that other state organizations do the same, just look them up on line

[David Scharringhausen]

Here is the OFFICIAL USGA ruling regarding that particular situation:
A player unable to find his ball after a brief search drops another ball (Ball B) under Rule 27-1 and plays it. His original ball is then found within five minutes after search for it began. The player lifted Ball B and continued to play with the original ball. Was this correct?
A.No. When the player put the substituted ball into play at the spot of the previous stroke with the intent to play a ball under Rule 27-1, he proceeded under an applicable Rule. Therefore, Rule 20-6 does not apply, and he must continue with the substituted ball (see Decision 27-1/2). The original ball was lost when Ball B was dropped under Rule 27-1 (see Definition of “Lost Ball”).
Once the player dropped the second ball, it became the ball in play. He abandoned his first ball. You CANNOT declare a provisional ball that lands in a hazard. Once you play a second ball, it becomes the ball in play.

[Bob Newman]

Mike–just wondering if you ever heard anything back from WA on this????

[Mike StClair]

After talking to the rules official for the world am, I was correct on the ruling, the legends told me they were going to let the world am handle the ruling, they never mentioned it to them, again I left early that Thursday to keep from driving in the storm the next day, I never got anyone on the phone until Tuesday after labor day, the rules official called me on thursday and the bottom line is the tournament was closed so there was nothing they could do. I know now if it ever happens again you need to address to the world am rules official at the CC the day of. I just ASS U ME the legends would have taken care of it. Shame on me, I do apologize to the fifth and sixth place finishers for not protecting the field.

[Bob Newman]

Mike, do not beat yourself up on this. The blame lies strictly on the Legends staff for being too lazy to do what they should have done. Keep in mind they did not have the carts set up when we arrived, put the wrong rules of competition in the carts and now this. This just backs up what I have been saying for the last several years, the local clubs could care less if the Tournament is conducted properly. They just want the revenue and to sit in clubhouse. The WA is doing all they can and the local pros are letting the WA and us players down.

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