Home Forums The World Am Bulletin Board Lift, clean and place

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    John Decatur

    We played it down today at Pine Lakes. No lift clean and place there for us in Q School.

    Tommy Briggs

    John we played lift, clean & cheat again today, Burning Ridge

    Adam i looked i do not find where you have ever won your flight or even had a top ten finish. Why do you play, for the free food and beer? I play for the trophys and the prize money; last six trips include a First, Second, Third and a First. Maybe i will see you Friday at the Dye Club but if you don’t win your flight maybe I’ll see you in the free beer line. 😕😕😕

    Rick Kimbrell

    WOW…TB…brag time. Why did you not play in 2016, 17, 18? And, in 2014, you were T23. So, every years hasn’t been spectacular. Get off Adam’s butt.
    This will be my 34th consecutive year and I am not here for the free beer. I have also won my flight but I don’t jack other people around about why they come.

    adam peterson

    I’ll make sure to bring some tissues for your tears at the 19th hole..

    Tommy Briggs

    Rick I never attack anyone unless they attack me first, I did defend myself when your friend Adam attacked me first. He asked ms why I play.
    I did not start this post about L,C&P, I expressed my opinion and explained why I have the opinion I have. I also pointed out two situations that happened Monday which I believe prove why L,C&P through the whole course is complete BS. NEVER attacking anyone while expressing my opinion.
    I did not “brag” about my WA results until this guy asked WHY I play, so I told him, I play for the trophies and the prize money. If I didn’t have any success it would have seemed a little silly to claim I play for trophies and money but never won any.

    Let it go man, I never attacked anyone, and prefer not to engage with this stupid banter.

    Ken Weatherford

    How about Stomp on and Place, Tommy? lol

    Two years ago, we had a player in our group that stomped on the 5-ft. tall pampas grass to give himself a shot, where he didn’t have one at all. He must have cheated at least four or five time during the round, but I only saw that one instance. Shame on me for not calling him on it and having him DQ’d, because he got second in the flight. He quoted his score (to me) on every hole, then at the end of the round, we checked and signed scorecards. Then he said he had a birdie on a hole…to get a skin, I can only assume. He was the biggest cheater I ever saw.


    Tommy correct me if I’m wrong as I am not up on the new rules since the changers but the preexisting rule for lift clean and place was because of the ground conditions thus being GUR. The old rule stated that GUR is measured at ground level outwards not upwards so therefore if any situation had a ball off of the ground in a Bush above ground level it would not come into the specification of this rule and has to be played as is

    Jim Kavanagh

    Look at the definition of GUR. It refers you to several interpretations. One states that a ball in a tree that is rooted in GUR is considered in the GUR and free relief. Further, if a bush or such in the GUR interferes with your swing in the general area, you receive relief. The GUR extends upward and outward to an extent.

    Ed Guertin

    Very good comments here and some very good scenarios for sure!

    L,C and P does and should be used for NET Amateur golfers, most are there for the fun of the tourney and many are lacking a good knowledge of the rules and unless you are actually standing there to provide guidance then some very questionable decisions are made on the part of the player.

    This happened last year with the sand fiasco, on a few occasions. I played with folks who took relief in a bunker where I knew it was not allowed! Fried egg being one and close to the lip being another. In several occasions I questioned the players and there was a common theme, anything goes, we have a license to kill in a bunker.

    When asking others players in the group there was the same common theme for the most part, in a bunker, smooth it. move it and you have one club length! I also know last year was the exception playing in 3 threesomes so getting a consensus among us we’re starting off 1 for, one against, and one who usually took the stance, well they said abnormal and it was abnormal…

    To me over 4 days that just showed how folks took full advantage of the situation!

    Myself, here is what I personally believe for L,C and P in an Amateur Tournament:
    -No L,C and P for all the Gross Divisions or for Friday’s Championship Round.
    -When L,C and P is instituted for the day, you must mark your ball, use the scorecard (SHORT WAY ONLY) clean it and replace it, excluding going from the apron of the green to the green itself.
    -DIVOTS, a personal pet peeve of mine! We all play on public courses and make divots, most of us repair or fill them in, too many A-hol*es don’t, especially when wedging it from an area they can’t bring the cart! They bring the clubs to make a shot, not the sand bottle! I just believe that a scorecard relief is warranted every day, the short side of the card, again, except Gross Divisions and the Championship round.

    Just like the comments here, there is a lot of passion to get it right, but not everyone agrees on how it should be done.

    I think all of us agree that looking back at past scenarios and events that have transpired we all want to provide the best tools possible to all the flights to make a great Amateur Tourney even better!

    Can’t wait until August… keep smiling folks, we can do it!

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by Ed Guertin.
    • This reply was modified 2 years, 12 months ago by Ed Guertin.
    Ken Weatherford

    All great points, Ed. I am total agreement with you. There is one more that I am going to add. One year, we had a course that had a drop location that was normal for the course. However, for the tournament, using the drop was not allowed. It was clearly pointed out that the drop location as not to be used, to all players.

    When my group got to the hole, two players put their tee shots into the water. Then they kind of played stupid and said, “Oh, there is a drop.” I told them, no and that the tournament admin said no drop. Eventually, they did re-tee with a little anger directed towards me.

    There is always going to be anger by some SH_T that doesn’t know the rules, or claims he does but doesn’t. In such cases, there is ALWAYS one fallback rule (action)…play two balls and let the tournament admins make the decision or ruling when you finish. Personally, that is how I intend to play from now on, when there is a question about rulings and the person violating wants to argue the ruling.

    For those of us failing to call someone on a rule, shame on us! I would never fear the repercussion from another player when you have two more players witnessing violations as well. What I try to do is warn a player of his violation before he does it. Just like pro tournaments, we all must (or should) know at least 90% of the rules of golf and the rest is left up to the tournament director.

    Tommy Briggs

    Harry as Jim mentioned in many situations just like a red or white line in certain instances the “issue” extend upwards and in some cases could include a ball that has come to rest in a tree or bush.

    I have made my opinion clear several times but there should be no remedy for a bad lie. Bad lies are part of golf plain and simple and to try to remove them from the game is a game that is no longer golf. The day that every shot is played off of a preferred lie is wrong and goes against the very ideology of the game of golf. If the game was intended to be played without the fear of coming to rest on a root or in water, or in adverse conditions then golf courses would not have trees or water and the General Area would be made of pristine artificial turf. You are supposed to have bad lies in golf, it is part of the game and to use exceptions outside of the rules of golf to eliminate bad lies is not golf.

    My swing coach used to tell me he was not going to spend a lot of time with me on bunker shots, he thought it made better sense to teach me how to hit the ball where I wanted it to go and avoid bunkers.

    Jim Kavanagh

    Full disclosure, I am a senior rules official for the Florida State GA. I have played the Am a few times. In my experience, very few players are aware that there really is a book of golf rules. Most of them go with the “Somebody told me…” or “I heard that…” or “My buddy always does…” Most of the time they are incorrect in both interpretation and application. I have stopped interjecting because they won’t believe me anyway.

    One year I witnessed the pro at the course give a bad ruling. I politely informed him that he was giving bad information. Of course, he took umbrage, so I suggested that he pull his rule book and check rule# 26 (at the time). I left but the guys involved told me the next day that he did indeed get out the book and correct the error.

    When you decide to play in this kind of “tournament” be ready to put up with players who don’t know and don’t care. When you advise them, they get upset and say they are just out to have some fun. Good for them. Most of us invest a pretty good amount of money for their fun, and they are oblivious to playing by the rules.

    Each player should be given a phone number that goes directly to the rules chairperson, not the local pro. Most issues can be settled over the phone. We even will have players send pictures sometimes. I have not played in a few years and doubt that I will again as I have witnessed and proven outright cheating without any resolution. It’s a shame for us players who stick to the book and play fair.

    Tommy Briggs

    How does a good golfer get rewarded if every bad shot that comes to rest in a bad lie is simply lifted, cleaned and placed on a nice cushy lie with a direct line to the green?

    Where is the skill if you can just bang the hell out of the ball without any care for where it goes because a simple lifting, cleaning and placing the ball eliminates any penalty for a bad shot?

    If trees and roots are not to come into play during a round, why do golf courses not cut down all the trees?

    Why not play everything as a lateral and just bang the hell out of the ball and then bring it to the nearest point in the fairway and place it there.

    Golf is supposed to be a game of skill, requiring practice and precision and those efforts are supposed to be rewarded. Bad shots are supposed to hurt and cause difficulty and have penalties.

    I think more people should play in the just for fun division then they could do whatever they want because there really is no winner in a game without rules.

    Mike Cheeseman

    If they use LC&P it should only be in your own fairway. This way the wild swingers really can’t take advantage of grip it and rip it knowing they can get a preferred lie at the end.

    Raymond Blank

    Hold up Adam !
    All Mike is saying is most golfers really don’t know the rules of golf and most of the golfers playing in that group don’t know the rules so they think they are doing the right thing but they are actually violating the rules! Their for if you are in that same group but playing with others and abiding by the correct rules then is that not cheating by those who say place the ball on the green and say make par when if they do the correct thing they may have got bogies are even a double.
    Just something to think about!!

Viewing 15 posts - 16 through 30 (of 34 total)
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