pace of play

[Tommy Briggs]

Rick the new OB rule presents a problem if a player hooks or slices the ball right off the tee. Dropping somewhere 100 – 150 yards off the tee is a problems that a 2nd (3rd) shot off the tee can cure if the player is normally 250 yards off the tee.

I was with a friend who hit it OB and his drop area would have left him directly behind a large group of trees. Again hitting a 2nd (3rd) shot off the tee put him on the other side of the fairway, no tree trouble

[Bob Newman]

The new OB local Rule is not for Tournament Play. It was advertised as a chance to play a Tournament just like the pros, I do hope that it is not put into play as it eliminates the “pressure” of tournament play in getting a “ball in play”. As it is now, we have courses that will not eliminate the DZ’s that take the Penalty area completely out of play(not what is recommended by USGA) and if this is added, the WA would have to change the way the Event is advertised. Two of the new LOcal Rules that need to be added are, E12 (? I think) which deals with Dropping Back on the LIne and the one about replacing a damaged club.

[Rick Murgittroyd]

The thing is, this isn’t PGA Tour event. It’s as close as we get, but it’s not. We can’t complain about speeding up play, then not throw some fixes at it. I like the rule and hope they use it. As far as hooking behind a tree, or something in the realm, I’ll go back to my other statement, they should hit at a provisional and keep riding. It depends how the rule would be implemented, I suppose. But I don’t believe one HAS to look for their ball if it’s deemed OB. Is that right?

[Rick Kimbrell]

Those of us who have played for years have seen plenty of courses who have made pretty much everything right or left on holes that are wooded as Lateral Hazards. Painted red lines all the way down both sides. No water to be found anywhere in there but they were still marked as lateral. They do it to speed up play, especially in the WA.
Then you have the stupid rule at Tidewater…I will not go there because I think their local ruling is total crap and against the nature of the game.

[Rick Kimbrell]

Rick, my understanding is that if you don’t call Provisional, the original ball is completely out of play as soon as you hit the 2nd ball. If you do call provisional, you don’t have to go look for it but one of your opponents can and if he finds it in bounds, your provisional is out of play. Same for a ball you think might be lost that you don’t want to find. Once found, the provisional is out of play. But, since this is not match play, you can hurry your butt up to your good provisional and play it before the other ball is found. Playing out of turn in stroke play…they cannot recall your shot.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 7 months ago by Rick Kimbrell.

[Tommy Briggs]

Rick K, you are correct about a provisional ball, the player must “declare” they are playing a provisional ball. Failure to declare it as a provisional automatically puts that second ball into play and the first ball is abandoned.

You do not have to look for a lost ball. You have a maximum of 3 minutes to look for a lost ball, but you can abandon the search at any time including never even beginning a search. Once you declare that you intend to put your provisional ball into play all players should abandon the search.

Rick M, I always say, “If you hit a provisional ball, three people know you hit a bad shot If you have to go back and hit the shot again seven people know you hit a bad shot.” Always hit a provisional ball. This is also why my biggest pet peeve with the USGA over rules is their rule that prohibits you from hitting a provisional if you think your ball is in a penalty area.

[Rick Murgittroyd]

I agree with the provisional comments for sure. But hey, it;’s the WA…as long as we get back to the condo for a shower and head to the 19th hole, no real complaints from me!

[Bob Newman]

Tommy, take a look at 18.3c(2)/2 and 18.3c(2)/3 in the interpretations. these put a little different spin on what is acceptable. If someone finds the ball( spotter, opponent, official , etc-) within the 3 minute period, -the player is obligated to “identify” the ball. Also the rules do not keep you from a Provisional if you think that the ball could be lost other than in the penalty area. And with the way some courses mark the entire side as a penalty area, there will probably be numerous occasions when this will be the case. Also while we are talking about identifying the ball, the new rules have a different view on this also–you are encourage to put a mark on you ball for identification, but if you hit a ProV into an area and you find one in the same area and it is reasonable to assume it is your ball if you identify it as such. Good Luck with trying that in this group, haha

[Tommy Briggs]

Bob I agree if someone finds your ball you have to identify it, and if it is yours, you have to play it. What I am saying is no one is required to look for the ball, you can abandon the search / ball at any time, including not ever beginning a search.

Regarding the provisional ball in a penalty area, here is the rule, I am I misinterpreting something.

18.3.a

a. When Provisional Ball Is Allowed
If your ball might be lost OUTSIDE A PENALTY AREA or be out of bounds, to save time you may play another ball provisionally under penalty of stroke and distance
.
But IF YOU ARE AWARE THAT THE ONLY POSSIBLE PLACE YOUR ORIGINAL BALL COULD BE LOST IS IN A PENALTY AREA, A PROVISSIONAL BALL IS NOT ALLOWED and a ball played from where the previous stroke was made becomes your ball in play under penalty of stroke and distance

See you soon, love the discussions
.

[Bob Newman]

Tommy, I’m out of town and don’t have all my books and I hate looking up stuff on the app on my phone. The interpretations make a lot of the rules a little more understandable and I am also going by what is discussed in workshops and on the course with officials at events. And you almost have to see the course as to where penalty areas are and consider what is around penalty areas, trees, rough etc and if the ball could possibly be anywhere other than penalty’s area you can hit a provisional ball. If you see it “splash” that kinda eliminates that(although, I have seen a splash nd the ball had actually bounced onto land outside penalty area). This is kinda like “virtually certain “, it is some wiggle room. The rules are not as harsh as they use to be and give the benefit in most cases to the players.

[Tommy Briggs]

Bob, there are not any clarifications in the interpretations portion of the rules regarding provisional balls. Like I said before I think this is the stupidest rule still on the books. Candidly I don’t understand why a provisional ball is an issue if you think your ball is in a penalty area.

During the World Am a few years ago I hit my tee shot on a par 3 with a marshy penalty area in front of the green. After I hit my tee shot the front of the green was not visible and I did not know if the ball had cleared the hazard. It turned out my ball had made it to the green but hitting a provisional ball would have made it quicker and easier had my ball not cleared the hazard.

[Bob Newman]

The rules have changed from a couple years ago 18.3a—if a ball “might be lost outside a penalty area”—-a provisional ball may— key word is might. Under BUT—only possible place original ball could be lost is penalty area. The might part gives flexibility to rule. That’s why the area and conditions surrounding the PA have to be considered.

[Tommy Briggs]

Agreed but if there is nothing around the penalty area other than rough and fairway it would be hard for someone to find “cause” to play a provisional ball, agreed?

Don’t you need “cause” to put a provisional ball into play. I played with a guy a few months ago who hit a ball down the right side of the fairway. He said he was going to hit a provisional ball in case his ball was lost. He probably hit five provisional balls that round.

The rules are kind of vague, from the Interpretations:
“only the information that is known by the player at that time is considered” (in determining whether to put a provisional ball into play)
“A player believes the original ball came to rest in the general area and it MIGHT be lost”

[Bob Newman]

The player gets the benefit of if it might be lost in high rough , hit a tree and could have gone elsewhere. If it is fairway all the way to PA then is most likely in PA. All things need to be considered. If the player thinks it might be lost then he can hit provisional at his discretion. I remember Tiger hitting a provisional as spotters were all around his ball. It’s a way to take a practice swing with in the rules.

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