Home Forums The World Am Bulletin Board Recap of 2016 with suggestions for 2017

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  • #36580
    chuck beauregard
    Participant

    Recap 2016 World Am

    Each year seven of us travel to the World Am, with the variety in ages and ability we end up with minimal course overlap.

    Each night we recap the events of the day, I thought I’d share with the World Am community some of those discussions.

    • Without exception each of us (7 this year) felt the courses were exceptional.
    • Participation appeared to be down but the bonus was the courses on the extremities appeared to be those eliminated, (missed having Carolina National, I must say.) However for travel purposes this was a bonus.
    • Tournament operation was once again “top notch”.
    • I expect that we will travel again from the left coast next year for the event, but with that said there are a few things that should be addressed.

    Items that need to be addressed:

    1.

      Playing by the rules:

    It constantly amazes me how many for the participants do not understand the basic rules of golf. This lack of understanding can make an otherwise wonderful day of golf, horrible.

    Recommendation: While it would be impossible to make every participant a “rule official” it is possible to help all participants better understand the rules.

    Zero cost aid: USGA has a series of rules training videos, which would take a about 30 minutes to watch, that do an excellent job of explaining the most common rules.
    Link: http://www.usga.org/rules-hub/rules-of-golf-explained-trainers–series.html

    I’d suggest next year that WorldAm send a link to this site to all participants in the build up to the 2017 tournament, and suggest they watch them.

    2.

      Drop zones:

    While I’m not a fan of any drop zones, if the tournament is going to allow them, then they should be uniform. No drop zone should eliminate the hazard from play. Meaning if you hit the ball in the “water hazard” you will need to hit over it from the drop zone, you will not be rewarded with dropping the ball closer to the hole. In many cases the drop zones were within putting distance of the hole.

    While I’m sure the golf course likes these very lenient “drop zones” for speed of play they are not fair to the participants of the tournament.

    #36583
    Bob Newman
    Participant

    Chuck, I have been trying for several years to get the dro zones to be correctly located but (In my opinion) the pros just do not care nor understand how to do it. This caused 2 big problems with 2 separate players in my groups. I have discussed this with the local pros and they just do not want to change them but it is extremely “un fair” to those that hit the greens fairly.

    #36588
    chuck beauregard
    Participant

    I hear you and understand. I had this type of conversation with TPC a few years ago. Brain dead comes to mind.

    However, WorldAm Tournament Committee can make it very clear to all participants that course “Drop Area” are not acceptable alternatives if they do not comply with USGA rules, given we are supposed to be playing by USGA rules.

    Specifically the player is NOT to get relief from traversing the hazard and the drop area can not be closer to the hole.

    Surely at least one for the four players in the group will have read the committee’s ruling and the rule will be enforced.

    PS. The other thing that needs to be fixed is the website!!! I get notification that you replied and it sends me to the bulletin board, only to tell me I must be logged in to reply, but no link to log in. Navigation on this website leaves a great deal to be desired.

    #36591
    Scott Springer
    Participant

    preparing a back-up course for a Friday rain out would be nice

    #36594
    Bob Newman
    Participant

    With the rain they got I do not think they could have played anywhere

    #36609
    Aaron Ellis
    Participant

    I agree with Bob, there were no course in Myrtle Beach that would have been suitable for play on Friday, I was there and the downpours were crazy along with 40+mph wind gust, only a fool would of played 18 holes in that, no way you could even putted on greens with standing water! Only thing they could do is plan to play on a Saturday somewhere, but that opens a whole other can of worms, for people checking out on Saturday, along with having to book a whole course and them potentially set up no open tee times just not to be used either!

    #36612
    Rick Kimbrell
    Participant

    I see no alternatives for the Friday rain-out. The WA had the course reserved for Friday, not Friday and Saturday (just not monetarily sensible). There was no where within 150 or 200 miles you were going to play on Friday. It was what it was.

    I also agree on the Drop Zone situation. I saw several instances where one would probably be better off just aiming straight at the water and hitting it in…then going up by the green and dropping the ball in DZ…quite possibly making better score than playing the hole conventionally. I see this every year…yet some years you see courses where there realistically should be a drop zone and there isn’t one. Probably a no-win situation but the courses could not a better job.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by Rick Kimbrell.
    #36620
    chuck beauregard
    Participant

    Relative to the Drop Zone issue and rules in general, I haven’t seen any effort on WA’s part to inform the players of the rules. It amazes me how often my traveling companions would bring up that people didn’t understand “lost ball” options, or when you can use the “provisional ball” you hit, or that you can hit the “provisional ball” until you get past the original ball, etc..

    Rules that should be understood prior to the event, and not have to be explained by your fellow competitor.

    I did call a penalty on a player in the first round, and I must say he was a true professional about it. Yet i didn’t like having to call it and will admit I lost my focus, what little I had, after that.

    I would much rather WA invest in “rules” handouts in the goodie bags than another head cover or hat. It has been a few years since I’ve seen what I have in mind but it was an accordion folded full color explanation of the basic rules. It was about the size of a pack of cigarettes and would easily fit in a golf bag for reference.

    #36621
    Rick Kimbrell
    Participant

    Couple of things come to mind.
    This can never happen…”However, WorldAm Tournament Committee can make it very clear to all participants that course “Drop Area” are not acceptable alternatives if they do not comply with USGA rules, given we are supposed to be playing by USGA rules.”
    Reason it can never happen…the WA TC is not at every course. This is why they rely on the Pro at the course being played. If the course deems a Drop Zone and I am required to take a drop…I am using the Drop Zone listed in the course handout for that day even if it does not comply with USGA regulations. I am not about to get penalized for playing from the wrong place. It becomes a matter of “Well, the WA TC told me this versus the golf course in their daily hand out says this”. The player is going to lose. The information on the sheet handed out by the course is the gospel when it comes to condition of play. The WA TC supposedly handles all of this before the tournament how the competition is to be conducted with the course. Does the course ignore it?…I guess but the TC has to handle with course/pro.

    I do my best to prevent any player from being penalized if I can catch it ahead of time. If I see someone playing in front of the tee markers, I try to stop them. If someone is about to take an illegal drop (within the rules we are playing by), I try to stop them. If someone marked their ball and moved it on the green, I do my best to remind them to put it back in original spot. If someone is going to have to take a penalty drop, I will do my best to go over their alternatives with them if they want to know them.

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 11 months ago by Rick Kimbrell.
    #36623
    Rick Kimbrell
    Participant

    Another thing about Drop Zones…there is nothing within the 34 Rules of Golf about Drop Zones. It does state that Local Rule may provide for a Drop Zone. And, there is no real Rule stating that the Drop Zone must keep the hazard in play. If someone can provide me with a Rule that states differently, please do. Thus, like it or not…by my interpretation of the rules and appendices…the course can establish a drop zone right on the edge of a green…if they so desire.

    #36624
    chuck beauregard
    Participant

    I’m not a rules official but I think you will find that “Drop Zone” are not in the rules they are only a Committee agreement to break the rules of golf. In direct violation of rule 1. However, they came about because of TV and temporary immovable obstructions, like stands. It became impractical for players to take the proper relief in accordance with the rules so a “drop zone” was established to solve that problem.

    Like many things added for one purpose (like alternative tax methods, ATM) the purpose gets lost and it is used to “speed up play” even if it breaks the rules.

    The better question is where in the rules does it say in taking relief from a “water hazard” you can get closer to the hole, and/or on the other side of the hazard.

    #36625
    Mike Sterner
    Participant

    I think drop zones were created to speed up play, which is probably the number one complaint of World Am golfers. They also probably help the tourists who pay large sums to play and don’t want to shoot 120.

    #36641
    Bob Newman
    Participant

    drop zones—are legal as long as they do not violate 26-1b (keeping the point where last crossed the hazard between you and the hole) or like # 17 at Sawgrass, having to still play across the hazard but from a shorter distance– go to USGA website and read decision 33-8/2–this decision specifically deals with putting DZ on green side for a 2 shot penalty and the answer in part –“such a rule alters 26-1b as it allows the player to drop a ball on a part of the course that the rule would not have permitted his to reach— No matter how lyou look at it, it is just not fair to the player that negotiates the hazard according to the rules to have a player just get to pick up and cross the hazard for 1 shot. This is suspose to be tournament golf, the DZ they use as MB are fine for tourist but this is Tournament Golf. On a par 5 at Wdorld Tour, since water was down the entire right side of FW, I could have hit my tee shot into the hazard, gone to the DZ on green side, dropped a ball (2) and been chipping got a 3 from just off the green. The WA committee can not monitor each course and have to rely on the local pros to do the right thing and the local pros elect to do jsut what they always do and sit in the proshop. I had a discussion with the pro at Tradition and World Tour and all they say is that they can make a local rule to do but have no clue that you can not make a local rule unless it is in the Appendix and/or approved by the USGA. I doublt if the majority of them have ever attended a USGA Rules Workshop, at least I havew not heard anyone instrtoduce themselves as a PGA Professional at one (but i will admitt with over 200 at these things I could have missed it during the introductions). I just think that with what we pay to -play in these things, the local pros could get it right since it is advertised as a Tournament.

    #36642
    chuck beauregard
    Participant

    Well it seems I’m not the only person that is discussed with the “drop areas” on many of the Myrtle Beach course or the way WA handles it.

    I asked my Regional Golf Association Rules Chairman about drop areas and here is what I got back from him/

    “Thank you for the email. In terms of locations of dropping zones, there is no rule on where those are to be placed. A Committee can establish them wherever they like. Ideally though, they should be placed where a player would still have to negotiate a hazard.”

    Relative to Rick Kimbrell’s point about the handout sheet. I don’t believe (could be wrong) it says you must drop in the drop zone, it only says there are drop zones. Player’s are allowed to exercise their options relative to the existing rules of golf on how they want to proceed.

    In my mind the tournament Committee is WA and not the golf course or pro, therefore WA sets the rules. WA can easily have a Tournament Rule on the standard sheet that says, “Any course drop zone that does NOT require the player to negotiate the hazard, is NOT to be used. Breach of this rule – Disqualification. ”

    Thanks for letting me vent!

    #36644
    Bob Newman
    Participant

    Chuck, I fully understand and appreciate what you have posted and would love to see the above wording on the hard cop and the sheet that is handed out each day. In fact at Ledgends, Parkland on Thursday our sheet specifically stated” Drop Zones- None, Out of Bounds no O B– I about got arrested for trespassing for attempting to play out of a yard (I even told the homeowner I had no intention of taking a divot) only to find out that the pro had the wrong sheet in the carts. I honestly believe that the WA Committee DOES indeed request that the local clubs do not use the improper drop zones or other incorrect local rules that they tend to use. But the committee is at the mercy of the clubs to do this and “I think” the pros just continue to do business as usual and not worry about those of us that would like to see it done correctly. I also think that the few of us that would love to see it played correctly are by far outnumbered to make a difference. I am not trying to fault the WA staff on this at all, it is just what has happened. The ones that want this as a golf outing just out number us. I have come to realize that the rules and pace of play mean nothing to the majority that play this event and I will deal with these factors when deciding about next year. I really enjoy playing in this event and if I decide not to come back, it will have nothing to do with the WA STaff but the lack of support from the local clubs, mainly the pros.

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