Scoring & Handicap Clarification – Confused About Score

[kyle lester]

Hi all,

Is there anyway to get an itemized scorecard that explains how the rules were applied? This was my first time playing in the World AM, had a great time, met great people, and had one of my best rounds to date. My tournament handicap index upon signing up was 7.1. I had an insane round of 73 (gross). My gross scores for the week were: 79, 84, 73, 81 ultimately placing me in third within flight 3.

After talking with others in my flight, the additional points applied on top of the handicap seem to be applied inconsistently across the scores in our flight and hoping to better understand the process and methodology. This will also provide transparency to others who might want to play this tournament in the future.

WorldAM uses something called “Tournament Point System (TPS)”. I copied and pasted their scoring methodology below:

* First place = 5 points 
* Second Place = 4 points 
* Third Place = 3 points 
* Fourth Place = 2 points
* Fifth place = 1 point 

Once their TPS point total for reaches a certain level the reduction is then applied to the tournament index for that participant. The levels of reduction are detailed below.

* 10 total points is a 3 stroke reduction
* 8 total points is a 2 stroke reduction
* 6 total points is a 1 stroke reduction

Link: https://myrtlebeachworldamateur.com/handicap-information/

[Lindy Sullivan]

I always thought that the TPS was for full event finishes over the last two years.. not individual rounds… I was in same flight and we played together last day… Had a blast!!! I also played with our “winner” and he never missed the center of the clubface.. he was a 7.2 😂 and shot even,-3,even the first three days.. on the last hole on the last day he told the whole group “the way to win the flight is to play even to you handicap two days and a few under one day.. then shoot a round just a bit over in the last day and you won’t get DQ’d” his exact words… then proceeded to stripe a drive down the middle then take a three wood and turn to the right aimed directly OB and chipped it 40 yards into the OB. Shot 84 and won by 3!! With no reductions, no nothing..I played well for me. I wasn’t going to win, however while I can shoot to my handicap or even better at times, I can’t play to the number I want like he said to do… if I could I wouldn’t be a 5.8! You got reduced for a -4 under round on a very short course that had wide fairways and big greens.. but yet our “winner shot -3 on a long tight course and got no reduction..

I had a lot of fun and will be back.. our “winner” I guess knew how to play the game.. we had a close well fought flight full of honest dudes who played their best.. and in my opinion our “winner”

[Scott T. – World Am]

TPS is not relevant to the adjustment system. That can be found below:

The handicap committee meets daily to aggressively monitor and review participants handicaps. Prior to releasing scores, the committee and automated computer system reviews top players’ score history and reaches one of three outcomes:

Let the player continue to play in the competition without adjustment.
Adjust the players’ playing handicap lower and retroactively adjust prior scores.*, **
Deem the player ineligible for competition prizes, without refund or appeal.**
Players deemed ineligible for prizes for rules / handicapping issues are welcome to play all forthcoming rounds.

*Adjustments are computerized and not up for committee review.

**All committee decisions are final. An adjustment is not necessary to be deemed ineligible for prizes. All scores are unofficial until Thursday’s flight sheet has been publicized. No refunds on entry fees are provided as a result of any decision.

[kyle lester]

Thanks, Scott. I did see the scoring guidelines on the site, however that still doesn’t answer my question on providing an itemized view of how World Am got to my score or anyone else’s in my flight for that matter. Scores should be easily understood and while the point system is the main focus on the website, which is measurable, it seems like more focus is put on the committee or algorithm portion.

Providing more details to newcomers, like myself, about scoring and how it actually works might influence whether we decide to spend a good amount of money to play in the tournament. If situations like my one good round lead to different scoring parameters, you should say that on the website. The lack of transparency leads to comments like Lindy’s above where people question scoring legitimacy.

[Alex Grebel]

Yeah, I felt the pain of my 26 year career round on the World Am this year. Had my special day shooting 74 as a 7.3, and proceeded to watch the brilliant computer reduce me to an index I’ve never been my entire life. Oh and for the record, my actual GHIN was 9.2 the day the tournament started and I play about 150 rounds per year. I run through my ups and downs each year, typically varying between around 7 and 10.

I’ve reviewed the odds of my round happening and feel it isn’t outside the realm of possibility for it to happen on this event or in a person’s golf life. One in 276? There are 3000 playing this event. Of course a handful of people are going to have that day each day.

The reduction placed on me forced me to have to play to a 5.x (I’m not sure the exact index they saddled me with), and as hard as I fought for three more days I had no chance. I needed another career day in those three days and it just wasn’t happening. Even though I played quite well for me…. 82,79,82. And I did play well as my GHIN has dropped from 9.2 to 7.8 during the event. But not 5 something.

After 16 years, this one has put a really bad taste in my mouth for the World Am. I’m a math/stats guy and I know what their brilliant computer is trying to accomplish and I don’t agree with it.

I feel that if a player has played the tournament for years, has shown his index to always be legit and had that one career day, an adjustment shouldn’t automatically come after one day. Quite honestly I’m not a fan of the adjustments at all. Just let them play and after four days if their body of work is that outrageous? Then find them ineligible for prizes.

Now my understanding is that one career round is going to be held against me in future World Am events if I play, and I just can’t if I’m going to be reduced to an index I’ve never held in my lifetime. I love to compete, but I’m not going to pay $600 to be penalized for the one day that I always dreamed of. Not happening. As much as I love everything else about this event. Just pains me.

[Curt Seviour]

I had a great round on weds I shoot a 74. At Myrtle Beach national West course very open a very little hazards and we were able to put hands on the ball that should account for something. It was probably my best score in 2 yrs. A few guys shoot 75 and we’re not penalized one went on to win. The next day one of the guys in the group asked me y my scores were all changed by 2 strokes net. Cards were sighed and turned in and entered and changed 2 days later. I ended up losing 8 strokes and instead of possiblity winning don’t know if I would of but went from 2 strokes up to 7th place 6 shots out. I understand protecting the field and this and that but I have one good day short game was what made the score . I came up a week early to play and practice cause I haven’t been playing well or much lately. I could see if the wanted to penlize me for that round which they did by adding 2 strokes to my net score that round I don’t think the would go and change a previous posted score to me that a bit over the top. I appreciate what WA does and they do a good job but the communication is horrible how do u penlize someone for something and don’t even tell them or notify me by email. I had a good time till then and although I tried to let it go it still bothered me and by the look of attendance this year down over 200 people there is got to be a reason. Rant over maybe see ya next year. Ps I’ve played for a few years so they have enough scores summited that I’m sure I wasn’t trying to bag them. Thanks

[John Tantillo]

Hey Alex–I was in your flight and was very aware of the adjustment you saw after the 74 on Day 1 (I finished second and luckily avoided the notice of the handicap police). I’m a math and numbers guy too and very interested in the algorithm that results in adjustments–I think a few years ago the tournament put out a video that talked about it and explained some of the inputs. My hunch is that it compares you daily score not only to your 7.4 tournament handicap (most likely your 12-month low) but to your current GHIN handicap, which in your case is 9.2. Run the probability for a 74 on a 9.2 index and it may be more rare than 1 in 276. If the algorithm does consider current GHIN then the logic might be something akin to “if you’re currently a 9.2 then you should play like a 9.2”. I agree that everyone in that flight is capable of shooting a gross 74 otherwise we wouldn’t have had a historical index in the 7 range. Personally I have been adjusted in the past and I roll with it knowing it’s not personal. And if I ever got DQ’d because of one good round, I would wear it as a badge of honor knowing that I shot a career round. My two cents

• This reply was modified 1 year, 11 months ago by John Tantillo.

[kyle lester]

Hoping Scott or someone from WorldAM responds to this. This issue seems to be more widespread than originally thought.

Providing more details to newcomers, like myself, about scoring and how it actually works might influence whether we decide to spend a good amount of money to play in the tournament. If situations like my one good round (or others as mentioned above) lead to different scoring parameters, you should say that on the website. The lack of transparency leads to comments like Lindy’s above where people question scoring legitimacy.

[Van Tran]

I find it a bit interesting that I saw some in my division get adjusted. 2 of them I played with; 1 on Day 1 and other on Day 2. Both shot well but I did not think it was out of the ordinary on both going low on Day 2; as the course suited their style of play really well. Course was long and was forgiving off the tee box but had a high slope and course rating than the other courses we played. I know an algorithm is utilized to identify and/or adjust strokes but there is a flaw to any algorithm. It was a bit interesting to see two guys I played with get adjusted for an exceptional score but the winner of the flight did not get adjusted. The winner of the flight’s actual GHIN handicap dropped by an entire stroke during the 4 day tournament plus an additional stroke after Friday’s round. He entered as a 15 and after 2 days dropped to a 14. My question is if that is the case, why wouldn’t his scores be adjusted due to the actual handicap change or why was his handicap not updated for Rounds 3 and 4. To me that is a simple one to adjust and justify, especially since handicaps are updated on GHIN the following day.

[kyle lester]

Just resurfacing this for visibility. I highly recommend any first-timers give this thread a read before investing time/money into this tournament.

[kyle lester]

As the tournament is getting closer… Just resurfacing this for visibility.

[Rick Kimbrell]

This program they are using that results in handicap adjustments has been in place for several years. It has also been explained by WA Scott several times. Don’t expect it to be changed. Simply put…it is what it is.
Play well guys and have fun.

• This reply was modified 1 year ago by Rick Kimbrell.

[Bob Newman]

Rick, if others do not understand it by now, they never will. The WA does a great job on weeding out the ones trying to get around the system. Yes the do get a few that do not deserve to be DQ,d. I
They have complyed move information than the USGA or the Pope of Slope on handicap and beating your handicap. I would think that the USGA would be begging them for some of their information to help them. I also wonder how many “ skins” are won each year by someone with an inflated index playing in a flight higher than his potential. Another reason I do not do skins. I have played with other people that were way better than me and would come in with 4 birdies offset by double bogeys.

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