Home Forums The World Am Bulletin Board The Dope Of Slope Doesnt Add Up

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    Once again I am frustrated by the crazy set restrictions of a slope and course rating. It is a flawed system that needs overhauling.

    Last week I played in a tournament on a private course. It had been raining all week and they had 4 inches or rain over night. Rather than turn away 220 green fees @ $85 they allowed up to play. The original round was to be from the members tees but because the course did not want 220 hacks chopping up the tee boxes on their beautiful tee boxes they moved up at least 80 – 150 yards forward on every hole to the forward tees. In addition to this the playing conditions were lift clean and cheat. The course rating was 72.3/135 6400 yds but we played closer to 70.8 /126 5600 yds.

    I played well and returned a score of 75 BUT every par 4 I had less that 90 yds in and was hitting every par 5 with a 6 or 7 iron second shot. three of the par 4’s had double water carries and we infact hit in front of the first carry over water causing me to have to hit 8 iron of the tee followed by a flip wedge. Very frustrating when you pay all that money to play a great course only to set up in a mickey mouse style. The after noon players were washed out but of the 124 players that did play there was 114 who played better than their handicap with only 10 players playing worse. The best low gross for the day was a 65 (7 under par) so it was obvious that the course was set up too easy.

    My complaint here is that I put in every round that I play and I correctly entered the score as per from where I played which was a differential of 8.7. The tournament director then entered every ones score as if played from the MEMBERS TEE which gave me a differential of 3.6T which wll now remain on my handicap for another 12 months as a Tournament score. This is not a true indication of how the course played or my playing ability. Why should I be penalized because they set up the course incorrectly

    The Slope system does not work. It is too rigid and never changes. This would be perfect shoul the tee box markers never change, the pin placements never change, the wind never blows, the weather is always perfect and you always get out of bed on the correct side. But we all know this only possible if you are playing fantasy golf on a computer screen.

    A much fairer system would be to implement a CCR (Calculated Course Rating) as they do in several foreign countries where the rating s 12.5% of the field. Therefore in a field of 200 players its the 25th best Net score that counts as the rating for the day and the stipulated posted course rating can slide 3 strokes either way. If the markers are closer the pins are easier the conditions are perfect and everyone plays well a course rating of 70 my slide to 67. If it a tough day, wind blowing, cold drizzle rain, cart path only and the majority of players struggle then a course rating of 68 might increase to 71.

    People say it all averages out over the year and that you will experience all types of conditions but that is crap. Some players are only fair weather players. Some courses dont have irrigation so a wet weather april drive will go 210 yrds while an august summer drive on the rock hard fairways will run out at 315 yrds yet the slope and course rating never changes.

    It about time we had an overhaul of the system to make it more flexible to give a true indication of a players actual ability

    Charles Freeland

    So don’t enter that one round on your handicap


    That would be the same as not entering your previous years scores at the World Am. They dont enter scores for you, you have to do it yourself. So…… If you do well this year and they need to check back on your previous 12 months scores and find that you have not entered last years tournament scores then you are DQ’d for submitting and incorrect handicap record.

    As to your suggestion, I do not have that option as all my tournament scores are submitted by the handicap director at the conclusion of each round. If I dont see it has been entered after a month I always go back and submit it retroactively.

    Bob Newman

    That is the tournament directors fault. He should have made the corrections as to what the yardages actually were. For what you paid they should should do it correctly. I have a chart from USGA handicap where I can play any course from whatever tee configuration and get a slope/rating and have a legitimate posting.

    Tom Jorjorian

    Actually, Harry, what you are looking for does already exist. Go to the USGA website, look under the Handicapping section, find Table 5-2g.
    I’ve been a rules official for 21 yrs with 3 different state golf associations, and wherever we posted the scores we would also post the course rating and slope for the day.
    Really, it’s not rocket science.

    Tom Jorjorian

    And, of course, next years World Handicap System is supposed to adjust for weather and ground conditions. But don’t hold your breathe on that.

    Mark Hancock

    Harry: I couldn’t agree more. The GHIN system is rigged to the favor of low handicap players. Higher handicappers tend to have a wider spread of scores, so dropping the highest 10 of the last 20 rounds played has a greater effect for high handicappers. Also, taking 96% of the lowest 10 round differentials really penalizes the high handicappers as 96% of 1 doesn’t amount to anything while 96% of 20 matters.

    While I say this, at least Golf does have a system that tries to bring equity to the game among all skill sets. Regarding your tournament score, you should be able to go to your Club or the GHIN host and have them remove the score that you posted. I would also have a conversation with the Head Pro at the Tournament site and see if you could make him understand that the posted slope/rating didn’t match what you played. Good luck,

    Bob Newman

    Mark, I disagree with your thinking on this. I don’t think it favors the low handicappers at all. All the events or leagues I play in, it is always the higher handicapper winning. I have my reasons for believing this but I don’t want to go into that. The reason for the lowest 10; and the 96% is the handicap is suppose to show your potential of a low score. You should only reach your handicap 3 times in #20 rounds(this is what I remember from the last time I looked all of this up) no system will truly work until all golfers start posting ALL of their scores and we all know that won’t happen.

    Ken Weatherford

    I’m sure you guys realize that the handicapping system is getting a change for next year. It is going to depend less on slopes and more on scores to par. I believe i also read that there is a change in the 10 round rules they go by now, but not positive on that.

    You can read more about it, here:


    William Zeoli

    Sorry, Bob Newman, I believe you are deluding yourself into thinking that the higher handicapper has an advantage. It is just he opposite. You say that the the higher guy “always ” wins. I believe you should take a look again. If you have internet access, please look up Dean Knuth, check his references, then read his articles. If you still believe that higher guys have the advantage, then , well, I guess there is no reason to discuss further.
    By the way, thank God it is only a 96% differential. I’m old enough to remember an 85% equation. Talk about screwing guys.

    Bob Newman

    Ken, you can find any article you want on the internet to back up any theory you want to support on any subject. I’ll stick to my beliefs on what I have seen happen in actual events. The USGA has completed more research than any individual and I will take their information. But nothing will work until you get every club to monitor their members and make sure all scores are posted for everyone setting foot on the course every day. Anyone can manipulate the system if they want too. Some just choose not to and usually get taken advantage of. JMO

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