Home Forums The World Am Bulletin Board WA and amateur golf observations

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  • #38749
    Dale Craig
    Participant

    Let me start by saying how much fun I had last year at my first WA. Playing in the WA had been on my bucket list of things to do and I’m glad I have crossed it off and am now coming back for a replay (Now if I can just get those Masters tickets I keep losing the lottery drawing for LOL). Having just played in my club Member/Guest this past weekend for about the 30th time I have some observations that reflect on the WA too. Once again I came very close to winning my flight this weekend, only to lose to a sandbagger. It doesn’t so much anger me as make me sad. To lose to a members guest with an 18 handicap who shot a 38 on his last 9 hole match, just strikes me as sad. This same guy beat me and my partner last year with a scratch 74 with the same 18 handicap. To be sure, myself and other members will address this if he returns next year and adjust as necessary.
    To relate this to my experience last year at the WA, I played with 1 person who I witnessed several suspected instances of cheating during the round and 1 certain instance at his final posting. For the suspected cases, I saw at least 1 time where I’m as certain as I can be that he hit a ball into water and then ran ahead of the rest of our group (while we were still hitting) only to arrive and have him standing over what he said was his ball no longer in the water and not even close to where it went in and him stating that he must have got a lucky break. “Yeah, it sure is odd that the ball wound up on the far side of that pond in the only spot where he now had a clear shot to the green. There were other times too, but I won’t elaborate. As I was keeping track of everyone’s score (as I do whenever I play) I compared his card with my cart partner keeping Who was keeping his official card and we agreed on this guys score and my cart partner exchanged cards with this guy to turn in. That night at the CC I looked at the posted scores and lo and behold this guys score was 4 strokes lower than what I noted and my riding partner noted. As a new participant I was hesitant to bring it to any WA staff as I was not the actual attester of his score.
    All this is just my way of saying, that I was brought up in a golfing household and have been playing since I was a child and honor is the roots of the tree I believe Golf is built on. I have always posted every round I ever play. My handicap is what it is.
    I can’t wait to play again this year in the WA and have ZERO belief that I stand a chance of playing on Friday, but that will not stop me from coming down and enjoying the hell out of the WA and Myrtle Beach. BUt, believe me….if I see instances of cheating or ignorance of the rules I will speak up. Cheers! ?

    • This topic was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Dale Craig.
    • This topic was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by Dale Craig.
    #38752
    Bob Newman
    Participant

    Dale, sorry for your experience last year. I have played since 2005 and I honestly feel that he majority of people do play honestly but I know that weird things do go on in the WA and also at home. last week I am certain that a fellow competitor found a ball he dropped to be found, but I was not certain. I made a comment that he took the wrong way which further convinced me of what he did so now I guess he will not be playing on the days I sign up as I sign up the night b4. the handicap system will continue to be abused by the ones that want to but we need to bring it to the WA attention so that they can follow up. Last year someone posted onhe re about a incorrect score after he got home and say the posted scores and it was too late for the WA to challenge it. It is up to us as players to keep everyone honest. JMO

    #38757
    James Carter
    Participant

    Dale, I agree with you. It is sad when people cheat at this beautiful game. Bob, I might be the person who posted about it being too late to Challenge. On our final round last year, I know what I marked on my playing competitors card, and had it checked by the guys in my group. Got to the 19th hole and his score was 4 strokes different, but I didn’t have my card to make sure. This year I will be using a sharpie or ink pen when I total up the score at the end. Too many erasers out there between the clubhouse and the cars. In my 10 years of playing, this was the first time this has ever happened. Looking forward to coming this year and just trying to play decent golf all 4 days.

    #38759
    Tom McGeehan
    Participant

    Dale, I have played in the World Am 28 times and this year will be my 29th time.I have also played in many Member/Guests over the years. Most of my Member/Guest tournaments have been 9 hole matches and I cannot count the number of times a high handicap has said,”this is my best 9 holes ever!” I think my highest handicap over the years has been either 6 or 7. At the World Am, I have never encountered an intentional cheat. However, I strongly believe it is our responsibility to protect the field. I have called people when they did not know the rules, but I do not believe you can do anything when someone runs up and finds their ball before anyone can help search. Some folks get so caught up in the tournament that they just have to cheat. Usually they do not win. When a score is changed, we need to report the problem and let the officials sort it out.
    This is a great event and i have been fortunate enough to play with folks that honor the rules and enjoy the competition. Hope you do not encounter any bad players this year. I have been fortunate to not have encountered any bad competitors at the World Am.

    #38760
    David Baker
    Participant

    Dale, it is truly sad what occurred in your 4 some. Each member of your group is responsible for protecting the field against someone you know is cheating. If you know he signed an incorrect score card you or someone should have said something. By not doing so, you have no argument to make as you accepted that he cheated. I do hope going forward you will protect the field against someone like the gentleman you incountered. Good luck this year.

    #38761
    Dale Craig
    Participant

    David, I firmly believe and find myself using the “protect the field” line quite often when having to defend a rules infraction. I hate being “The Guy” who gets called a rules Nazi, but I’ve played the game long enough and taken rules seminars and played too much tournament golf to always let things go. Another experience I had last year was while playing was while I was on a par 3 and I had my back to the tee. I was preparing to putt when I heard someone in the group behind us hit a tee ball with what sounded like a driver. I stopped and asked my fellow players if one of those guys just hit. I was told that yes one of them hit a driver into the marsh. After again preparing to putt it happened again. On the next hole I went back to this group and told them that what they had just done was illegal and that striking a ball anytime during a round is putting that ball in play, only to be told that they were just hitting balls into the marsh. I told them it doesn’t matter, but I’m pretty sure they didn’t care. After the round I told the pro shop of the infraction and hoped that they assessed the required penalty. I guess maybe I just kept witnessing too many repeated rules violations in a tournament so much larger than anything I’ve ever been a part of, I didn’t think to report my original post cheater. I will definitely not be shy this year. I actually like helping people understand the rules and want them to be stewards of the game in the best way too. The one rule I am continually amazed at which isn’t a big deal is, the fact so many people don’t know how to correctly mark and move a mark on the green. Simple rule but always one I like explaining.

    #38763
    Mike Sigmon
    Participant

    You know at the end of our round each day once we finish the last hole we move to the side some place out of the way total up our scores and make sure we are all on the same page then the person who kept that score and the person that the score belongs to both sign the card…So if I sign the card with you and we both agree on a say 79 and later that night when I get to the 19th hole and pick up our flight sheet to see what everyone in my flight did for the day and I see that the card I sign at the course for whoever I was playing with is now a 75 rather than 79 we are going to have a problem….

    #38765
    David Baker
    Participant

    Dale, you make a great point. Why do you think they have people who know the rules in charge of athletic events? Because you can’t count on the players to police themselves. I have been a high school and college official most of my adult life, and believe me at times it can be very eye opening. Players and coaches at every level have no clue about the rules of the game they play. You and I understand why they need rules people. It can be a thankless job but it has to be done. People who don’t play by the rules don’t deserve the opportunity to participate. I hope you continue to enforce the rules of the game you obviously love and call out the cheaters. Just my 2 cents worth.

    #38769
    tommy seymour
    Participant

    Dale, you said “what they had just done was illegal and that striking a ball anytime during a round is putting that ball in play ” although what you experienced would have got me concerned also, it is not entirely true , rule 7-2 During play

    #38774
    Dale Craig
    Participant

    Tommy, that is why I said that they were hitting Drivers from the teeing ground, not practice putting or chipping. Hitting drives is a rules violation. 2 stroke penalty. Also why I checked with the pro shop after the round and let them deal with it.

    #38775
    tommy seymour
    Participant

    agreed,but you said’anytime’ also, maybe confussing to some , not ment to open a can of worms .

    #38785
    Rick Kimbrell
    Participant

    Ok Dale, explain what you see people doing incorrectly in marking and moving their mark. Reason I ask, the Jon Rahm incident which he was not penalized for during the Irish Open.

    #38787
    Dale Craig
    Participant

    Rick, I cannot recall how many times I’ve seen guys move their marked ball on the green incorrectly. It usually goes 1 of 2 ways. First way is the ball is on the green and a fellow player asks them to make the mark either to the left or the right of where the ball lies. They come up to the ball and place their putter head next to the ball and place the mark at the end of the putter head (This is wrong). Instead of marking the ball with the marker and then moving the mark out of the line requested the distance of the putter head. In other words mark, measure, move, remark. The other less frequent mistake is they have marked their ball and the player asks them to move their mark. so, they go up and replace the ball and basically do what I previously described instead of just moving the already marked ball. I also tell them they should pick out something beyond the line (eg: a tree or other fixed object) they plan on moving to so they maintain the best possible alignment for replacing the mark back in it’s original position.
    As far as Rahm, it sure looked to me liked he placed the ball back in a different position than it originally laid. I hate this video ruling analysis that keeps going on. To me it is up the the player and their opponent(s) to make the call, not someone watching at home. I can honestly see the Rahm issue being an honest mistake. We are all used to marking behind the ball and in this case he had to mark on the side and may have forgotten how he had originally marked. Regardless and for consistency sake he should have been penalized in this case, as it sure appeared to me that the ball was not replaced correctly. If this had happened in the USA he may have but maybe the Euros are more forgiving. 🙂 The bottom line is the ball needs to be placed in the exact same place as it originally lay prior to marking position.

    #38788
    Dale Craig
    Participant

    Speaking of rules. Here is one I have been called on and one I absolutely hating calling someone else on. A ball comes to rest near a tree. The player approaches their ball and takes a couple practice swings. During a practice swing the club knocks a couple leaves off the tree PENALTY! It’s one thing to swing and take out a branch, but a leaf or two? Unfortunately those are the rules and stupid or not it is considered improving the lie or position.

    #38792
    Rick Kimbrell
    Participant

    Dale, I understand, and the rules confirm, how the player “SHOULD” mark his ball. But, understand…it is not MUST mark his ball. The ROG state how it should be done. So, if the guy does not mark his ball with a coin or object…instead uses the putter head…and then puts his marker at the other end of the putter head…it is NOT a penalty as long as his procedure to move his ball back to its original position is exactly the same. Decision 20-1/16 covers this quite well. In that decision, is specifically mentions using the toe of the putter. So, while I do not like to see people use this method, it is definitely legal as long as when they move it back, they do not put a coin or marker down and then put the ball ahead of it.
    In Jon Rahm’s case, he marked his ball beside it (initially) instead of behind it, as the ROG state it “should” be marked. However, in moving the ball back, it looks a bit off but honestly I have to agree with the R&A ruling…it was off maybe a milimeter or so at best. The angle of the camera was not directly over the ball.

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