- August 12, 2019 at 7:57 pm #46599
David T I also agree a max score limit does not belong in a Stroke play tournament. For one reason as Rick M mentioned how could someone who picks up for a 9 at any point in the tournament possibly win the tournament especially when he could be competing against someone without a pick up.
I do think there could be some form of help for higher handicappers who might be looking at 9 or more on a given hole, but how to calculate their score against someone without a max score becomes very difficult.August 12, 2019 at 11:54 pm #46601Jeffrey BarbasBlocked
Played with Dewayne Moore out in Mesquite, NV at Casa Blanca. He was having a great round about 2 or 3 over par. Get to the last hole of the day, a par 4. He snap hooks his drive into the worst spot on the course. He’s in play but (1) he can’t find his ball and (2) he can’t play it if he did find it (3) taking an unplayable wouldn’t have helped him on a line back or two club lengths. So after repeating this tee shot 3 times he finally hits an iron off the tee and then makes a par with his 4th ball. Plus 3 lost balls equals an 11. So he turned his 74 into an 81 just that easy.
My friend played in the 2nd flight(where I’ll be this year) that took a double digit number on hole 9 at the World Tour. You know, the Open holes that is fairway about 200 yards wide. I heard he hit his tee shot OB off the tee. Then the shank OB or two. The guy was a 1 or 2 handicap.
I don’t know how many times I’ve ended my Mesquite Am tournament with a perfect 10! I can remember twice at least. I know I could have placed in the event had I not taken the 10 though.
After every World Am round, everyone is in the clubhouse yucking it up. And the majority of the stories aren’t about our good holes. Most of the time it’s talking about the big number we took on a hole. Ticked at the time, but, now that it’s over we sit back and laugh about it. There is a little Jean van de Velde in all of us. And yes, we could have played a 9 iron all the way down the hole and finished better!August 13, 2019 at 7:28 am #46603
Jeffrey your point is well taken but in the Dewayne Moore scenario you described he scored a 10 not an 11
1 in 2 out
3 in 4 out
5 in 6 out
and 4 shots (on a par 4) equals 10
The point about the pick up 9 rule is while it may happen to you once every 5 years it is likely to happen to a higher handicapper once every round or every other round. In a four round WA tourney a high handicapper is likely to pick up a minimum of twice. Times 96 golfers on the course is saving some significant time.August 13, 2019 at 9:05 am #46606Rick MurgittroydParticipant
I guess I have to say this. 🙂 I’m changing my thoughts on the 9 stroke max rule. I love fast play as much as anyone. But, in all reality, when did this tourney become about speeding things up to this point? I know that the speed of play is the number one complaint but are there other ways? Where are the marshalls to put groups on notice? Where is the ready play golf? Where is the provisional off the tee when a shot could be in trouble? Why are people marking a 6 inch putt? Why aren’t 4somes policing themselves to stay with the group in front of them? People don’t mark their ball for identification. I’ve seen that far too often and it can slow down play. Will the three minute search rule help? I’m sure you all could come up with lots of ways to increase the speed of the event. Maybe the WA folks could put together a flyer on picking up the pace.
The threesome thing was abolished, as I hear it, because it was hard to monitor folks riding alone, etc. so that’s now out. That did speed up play, however.
I loved this tourney because it was the closest thing to a Major most of us would get. I don’t play because I’m all that concerned about the pace of play, unless we start getting over that 5 hour thing. I suppose this rule changes that some, but, we’ll see if it really impacts the speed of a few rounds.
10 days for me!
RickAugust 13, 2019 at 12:02 pm #46611William ZeoliParticipant
I have been running tournaments for many, many years. About 10 years ago I put in a tournament rule of 4 over par max on any one hole. Very little negative feedback. Hey, it can happen to any of us and usually it is the higher handicapper who will do it. Believe me, I’m all about protecting the field, but over the years I cannot remember the last time someone came up to me and said the winner only won because he picked up after 4 over. It virtually never happens. Now ,the next time I’m playing for thousands of dollars I might rethink it, but for God’s sake, chill out men.August 13, 2019 at 2:05 pm #46616Dale CraigParticipant
Thank You William. I swear the people on here take themselves way too seriously. C’mon anyone with a handicap under 20 should not be bothered by the 9 stroke rule. Geez, what is the $20 gift certificate really going to change your life? Do you really think that guy is going to prevent you from winning the overall title. Reading the same guys bitch on every thread about all the crap that bothers them is like sitting in the bar after a round with the guy who has to tell you about every stroke they made and how he would have broken 90 if all those putts had gone in and the tree wasn’t in the way yada yada. You all know the guy!
Everyone chill! There is a reason you pay to play and not vice versa.August 13, 2019 at 2:11 pm #46619Mark HancockParticipant
I love it when the WA Bulletin Board turns feisty! That means that we are close to teeing it up at the World Am.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I fully support the 9 max hole score. I think it’s great to pace of play and I don’t think it is going to change the Top 5 Flight Leaderboard in any way. I think Wayne’s posting on it, on this thread, yesterday gave a clear defense on why it is good for the tournament.
Of course, we are not going to agree, but heck, that’s what a Bulletin Board is for.August 13, 2019 at 2:34 pm #46624Rick MurgittroydParticipant
I think you guys are misreading a healthy conversation. If you wanted to see some crap roll down hill, you should have out here ten years ago. I think some of the conversations lead to, well, some confrontation. THAT, was fiesty!August 13, 2019 at 3:01 pm #46626
I personally find all healthy debates stimulating. I find it interesting to read other people opinions on issues that affect all of us.
I think the more controversial the subject, the more personal some issues are the more some people are going to be offended by opposing points of view.
My opinion regarding the pick up 9 ruling has changed, I now think it should only apply to flights with handicaps higher than a 12 or 15. I think in single digit handicap flights it is a moot point and would rarely be used. I can see it as a benefit to a higher handicapper and help the pace of play.
The same applies to the new OB rule, I think to a higher handicapper it could prove beneficial and help with pace. Lower handicappers are not going to be as affected.
The caveat is Friday only one set of rules must apply and the pick up 9 rule must be thrown out.August 13, 2019 at 4:07 pm #46628Rick KimbrellParticipant
Glad the OB local rule option is off the table. Does not belong in this type of tournament, regardless of what your handicap is.
As far as the 9stroke rule is concerned, I really don’t like it but it is what it is. And, again, does not matter what handicap a player is playing to…all of us should be playing to the same set of rules. I could easily see someone getting beat by a player who had that one horrendous hole (or would have had) but he gets to pick his ball up at 9. Very easy for even a really good player to have 3 super rounds, be in contention and have a huge blow up hole and finish out of the top 5. This rule might keep him in.August 13, 2019 at 4:19 pm #46630Ken DelaneyParticipant
I have witnessed many of “high numbers” through the years by myself and many others. It’s no fun watching it unfold and it’s even worse being the one who’s “unwrapping the package”.
And I can certainly understand all sides of the argument but let’s just see how this goes. It would certainly be “hard to take” if you’re playing with a guy on Monday who can’t get the ball in bounds on a particular hole but picks up at 9. Then on Thursday, he’s right there at the top by 1 or 2 and you just know he wouldn’t be there if that 9 turned into a 12 or a 14… I think that scenario is far fetched but possible.
I hope to not even have to think about that myself, but if I do (more than once), at my handicap (8.8), I shouldn’t expect to have a chance Thursday morning!!August 13, 2019 at 4:31 pm #46631Jeffrey BarbasBlocked
Rick, shot 90 on Day 4 in the 3rd flight at Pawley’s Plantation a couple years back. Was in 2nd place that year and finished 5th. I didn’t think I would have even been in the top 10 after that round. I guess that’s how tough that course can play. Big numbers can happen to anyone at anytime. I tin cupped a par 3 in a tournament one year and took a 13.
Tommy, I might have mistaken on the par or bogey. In any event it was still an 11 he had on the card. It’s amazing how it creeps up on you toward the last few holes of a tournament round. It’s usually my 17th hole played in a tournament that bites me. And like I said, I’ve taken the perfect 10 2 years in a row on the last hole of an event before.
Just keeping it real, if anyone thinks it will only help the higher handicaps that’s a farce. Maybe for placing top 5.August 13, 2019 at 5:01 pm #46635
Ken I agree if I pick up a 9 in my flight (Mid Senior 6.3), I also am figuring I am out of the money.
Jeffrey I think what we are all saying is someone in a low handicap flight could easily have a pick up 9. But anyone who does is probably out of the money. In a higher handicap flight you could still potentially win your flight and have a pick up 9 every round of the tourneyAugust 14, 2019 at 8:38 am #46642Bob NewmanParticipant
One thing I would like to caution everyone about is “Taking Relief Back on the LINE” Per the new rules, the ball must stay within the Drop Area (no more ball rolling up to 2 club lengths from where it first hit the course). With that in mind, if you do not define or make a reference point with a marker as to the most forward spot the ball can come to rest, then the reference point is , “where the ball first touches the course in relationship to Back on the Line. Therefore, if the ball hits the course and goes Forward and you play it, then you have played from a Wrong Place and subject to the General Penalty.A new Local Rule (E 12)could be adopted by the club or Wa, that would allow the ball to roll up to 1 club length forward. It is important to know whether this local rule is in effect or not to know your options. But either way, if you create the Drop Area, with a marker, and the ball stays within that area, you will be fine.August 14, 2019 at 10:08 am #46646Wayne RhodesParticipant
Oh yes, I remember the earliest days of this bulletin board, when things often got more than “feisty” and all too personal. (For the record, I was just an observer of these “discussions,” not a participant.) I think sometimes the moderator had to step in and “DQ” a particularly offensive poster (just like they have to at some point to players in the four-day tournament). At the same time, it seems that often the most belligerent and offensive posters simply stopped posting, much as many of those very few real asshats who play in the WA simply stopped coming. In both cases, we don’t miss them much !
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