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William – correct, as of now they are not listed, along with their other 2 courses Heritage and Oyster Bay. Additionally, Farmstead closed last fall, Carolina National is not participating, and Grande Dunes is closed for improvements. So there are 8 courses from last year missing unless I missed one or two.
I played OB in flight 50 the same day as Bernie. It was definitely longer than 5575, but bear in mind that Oyster Bay is a par 70 course. So, if it were the same total yardage as a par 72 course the Oyster Bay holes would play longer in relation to par than on the par 72 course. I think OB moves their white tees back regularly because there is a big gap between the white and blue tees (on the scorecard).
I don’t know which handicap service you guys use, but I was looking at my stat page on GHIN and saw that the PCC adjustment added a whopping 3 strokes to the regular white tee course rating that day. That adjustment can be added or subtracted depending on weather or other abnormal course conditions. Given that it was a warm and mostly calm day it wasn’t a Weather adjustment, so it had to be increased course difficulty, which was likely an increase in yardage. It wasn’t 6200 yards for us though. Flight 53 played a different day than us, so their setup could have been different, but you could check your handicap service to see whether the course rating that day was adjusted via PCC.
I prefer a shotgun start also. I don’t have the problem William Z has with ride logistics, but he makes a valid and sobering point. And yes, rental prices are way up over last year.
My biggest issue is the early starts. Last year I was in Tom J’s flight and the second day I had a 8:07 tee time at Farmstead. Like him I was an early start every day. I went out to the range at 7:15 and it was like hitting at dusk – not fun for old eyes. It was very cloudy that morning and that was a problem. If you don’t want/need to hit balls then no problem, but otherwise just hope it’s not cloudy.
I checked the sunrise schedule in MB for 8/31 this year and sunrise is at 6:48. I just hope I don’t get one of those 7:00 tee times at the courses where they don’t double tee.
After 28 World AMs I like the idea of seeing everybody I know before we tee off. Additionally, the shotgun is far more convenient for skins players and those who run them. As for playing faster, I don’t see that. Last year we had threesomes, only 72 players on the course, and everyone had their own cart. So yeah, we played faster. This year we’ll have foursomes, about a hundred players per course, and doubled up carts. That’s what we had in the March QSchool tourney, and all my rounds were 5 hrs or more. I prefer to bring back the shotgun next year at 8:30 or 9:00!!
David – use the “About” link on the home page and then use the FAQ link. You’ll then see a topic about the yardages that you can expand.
Louie, the tourney folks are not out at every course on a given day, so the course pro needs to make the call. This year was tiresome as every course we played was wet and we played it down all 4 days. Two of the courses were not too bad, but two of them were. Farmstead in particular was soaked on Wednesday. Not sure why, but maybe they had a local downpour the night before. In any case, I had mud on EVERY ball all day. It was a shame, as the course was actually in good shape, as it usually is. Lift, clean and place (or drop) should have been in place. In our flight (handicap 9.0 – 9.6) no one broke 80, a rarity for us. These decisions drove up overall scores in our flight, which put us at a disadvantage against other flights who got relief. By disadvantage I mean in the pairs competition. I mentioned this in my survey, and suggested that the courses should lean toward giving relief if the decision is close. The WA advertises itself as a tournament experience, so we should not have to unnecessarily cope with adverse conditions that professionals would never have to deal with.
Gary, you might want to find a range at a course not being used by the WA that day. The Litchfield range is small, and I believe part of the decision to use tee times was supported by being able to reduce the crowd at the range. One more player would be no big deal, but if a lot of River Club players see this and show up at Litchfield that would not be good for the Litchfield players. We had a hundred players there at the March Championship and they ran out of balls. As far as I know the tournament said Caledonia players could stop at True Blue to use their range, but the other courses without ranges were not given an option.
Mike Hammer – thanks for contributing an idea. As you have read, the players have always ran and participated in these skins games outside of tournament and pro shop administration. As Rick said, the only thing that sometimes the pro will do is announce a “last call” for the skins guy, or let him make a short statement about what he needs to verify your potential skins.
I can’t speak for all flights, but since they went to 2 flights and 96 players per course in 2009, our games included both flights in one game. Steve Harsch has done a good job the last couple years when he has been at my courses. If I recall, we had at least 70 players signed up last year, so the skins are popular with most of the players, at least in the mid-senior 8 to 10 index range. The best part is that it gives players something else to play for if they play poorly and are out of contention quickly. One year I played with a guy who had shot over 100 twice before the last day, but hit a skin for over $500 the last day. Those are the kind of moments that make you want to come back..
Hopefully those who want to run skins games will post on this thread when they get their course assignments in two weeks, including their Monday tee time. Not all will see it, but those that do can adjust their course arrivals/departures if they want to play. If they miss Monday they can figure it out and sign up on a subsequent day.
- This reply was modified 2 years ago by Denny Burch.
I think Grande Dunes is in the lineup also.
I haven’t had a course in really poor condition since the 90s at the WA. I will admit Founders was rough around the edges about 5 yrs ago, but even then the greens were ok. The days of bare greens *and* fairways at Deer Track, or wire grass so long on the tee you couldn’t take your club back easily at Heron Point are in the rear mirror, as is Wedgefield. No need to complain about Founders as it is not in the rota this year according to the WA website. Occasionally you might get issues in August with the few MB greens left that are non-bermuda, but even that is rare. This will be my 28th straight WA, and have played in 12 other Golf Holiday tourneys recently (the March Championship and Fall Classic) and have had only one course that partially lost its greens in the last 20 years, and that was Tigers Eye a couple years ago after a tough winter in early March.
One note about the use of the 52 courses listed on the website; they do not use all of them every day of the tourney, which is why you see more courses listed than used each day.
The pace of play should be better no matter whether we play threesomes or foursomes, mainly due to the single rider setup. I actually prefer the foursome shotgun start for the convenience to the person running skins games and the people who play in them. Remember that there will only be 72 players on the course, meaning with foursomes there would only be one group per tee in a shotgun. So, all groups are spread out at least 15 mins apart, a larger spread than tee times.
One advantage for tee times is that the range should not be as crowded, especially with only 72 players, but overall I prefer the shotgun, especially with the low player count.
I don’t know whether any courses in the WA will use cup noodles, but in my area (central PA) there’s another noodle issue. Some courses play a local rule that considers any putt that hits the pin and bounces off as holed, no matter how fast it was moving. Shots from off the green do not get this benefit. As you might guess, some players try to stretch that rule to mean any putt that lips out is holed whether it hits the pin or not (They claim it hit the pin). So disagreements can pop up as to whether the ball actually touched the pin.
I hope the rules committee provides a uniform rules policy for any courses using noodles. My preference would be to force putts to be holed.
Harry – I’ve played in the March Championship, the Fall Classic and the WA the past two years and *so far* the WA is the only tourney of those 3 that has used a handicap from the previous year’s tourney. Otherwise they appear to use the same criteria, which is the lowest index revision in the last 12 months, or your current index. The index you submit is also subject to reductions for the usual reasons, such as a lack of tourney scores, etc.
To sum, unless they change handicap criteria this year your WA handicap will be irrelevant. As for the last revision date, just guessing but it will probably be 2/15 given the tourney start date.
I’ll probably see you Monday by the elevator. Good luck!
Heron Point, Island Green, Calabash, Ocean Harbour. The 1st two may have reopened – don’t know. One of the Burning Ridge courses stayed open. Not sure if Wicked Stick shut down yet.