Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 37 total)
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    John Decatur

    Why are we going back to tee times? A lot of us come to the WA with our significant others and if you get hit with a late tee time your day is shot. I played in tee times during the Covid years and it wasn’t any faster. It also isn’t the same conditions. You could get an early time and have no weather condtions or extreme heat. What are the range of tee times? I am one that prefers to play early I will have to think twice about coming this year as a result of tee times. Especially when we take off after the Thursday round to start the drive back to NY. Getting a late tee time on that day would not be ideal.

    Keith Stephens

    Yep. Completely agree, John. Shotgun starts for me!

    The camaraderie at the course before and after a round is what brings me back year after year. Also, all golfers play the same conditions in a shotgun start. It can make a significant difference as I witnessed in 2020.

    Scott (or anyone else from the WA Staff), could you enlighten us as to the decision making process for eliminating shotgun starts? An indepedent decision by your staff? Survey results? A coin toss?

    Having said that, I will be back in 2024. Too much fun to miss!


    Ken Delaney

    Terrible decision if I must say. All great points that John makes and I’ll add ONE MORE IMPORTANT one which affects a ton of us. Tee times can make it extremely difficult for those who are CARPOOLING (I know I will be)!!

    If we end up with a course that can’t DOUBLE TEE, then you could be 4 hours apart from the person you are ridesharing with… unreal…

    Scott Collette

    I agree with all the post before me on reasons why NOT to have tee times. I was hoping this year they would go back to pairing us where we stand on the leaderboard for the 4th round. I haven’t meet anyone that wants tee times but, everyone wants final round pairings to reflect the leaderboard. I was really looking forward to going. Now, I’m seriously doubting I’ll go.

    Henry Zeberkiewicz

    Where did you see that we are going back to tee times?

    Dave Esqueda

    Been coming to WA for almost 20 years, and don’t care for tee-times. We have a large group of golfers who come in, and we try to keep transportation to a minimum so we can share transportation (gas) care pool to courses. I will now be very difficult to do that if we have tee-times. I guess skins game will be gone as well. Will be waiting to see what happens before I shell out my $$$$ to attend.

    Scott Collette

    It’s on the email they sent out today. I’ve copied and pasted the first few sentences below.

    We are thrilled to share exciting updates that will enhance your golfing experience with us in 2024.
    Registration will begin February 15th. What’s in store for you this year? We are proud to announce the re-introduction of tee time starts,

    Rick Kimbrell

    Well, I am glad the Committee is “thrilled”. I am not. I agree with all that has been said above. Finally we go back to shotgun starts and it was great. Now we are taking a huge step backwards yet again.

    John Decatur

    You would think the WA committee would learn from the PGA and the incompetent leader Jay Monahan. He didn’t listen to the players concerns and a new league was formed. If the WA committee enforced slow play and assessed penalties on certain slow players you wouldn’t have a problem. But they don’t care they have our money. They talk a good game but let’s be honest the player gifts suck and now they make a decision that failed during Covid when the player participation was much lower and they bring it back for what logical reason. I have heard a lot of people talking on the Facebook message board of coming that week and not playing in WA but doing their own thing. I play in non WA events leading up to the WA with up to 100 players at premiere courses for far less than what we pay to draw Lions Paw or Crown Park and the rounds don’t last 5-6 hours. I come to relax and meet new people and see old friends. I don’t want to be forced to do something only a small majority want. It bothers me to read long time players commenting on how they won’t play because of this stupid decision.

    Bruce Friend

    I am pro-shotgun and do not like this decision.

    I am aware that there are many that prefer tee-times and they are loud with the complaints. It is my guess, with the increase in price which is going to cause some not to come regardless of the shotgun/tee time issue, I am guessing there are some on the committee that fought this is the year to try tee times which those that argue claim it will help speed of play. In theory it should but it won’t. Didn’t help one bit the two years they did tee times due to Covid that I attended.

    I do see they have added about 7 courses versus last year. I am hopeful they reduce flight size with more flights and spread them out among the courses which may be one of the reasons for the price increase and smaller flights could result in better pace of play. If they do this, the range of time to get all the players on the course will be narrowed. This still won’t alleviate the issue with car pooling but it might help with some.

    Again, this commentary is just how I view things. I have no knowledge if it is true or not.

    Ken Delaney

    As mentioned previously, I can’t think of any good reason for tee times, but I think it’s only fair that the WA Staff come on here and try to explain the decision. Perhaps they can shed light on something we aren’t aware of?? I doubt it but what do I know??

    Scott, (or whomever is in charge now). Would you care to elaborate on the decision? You obviously know all the cons (from our perspectives). Enlighten us on the pros (or the whatever’s you used to justify this change).

    Thank you,

    John Decatur

    Ken and others, I talked to a friend this morning who runs one of the premiere courses and he explained to me that a large majority of the premiere courses prefer tee times and if they stayed with shotgun they may have lost more premiere courses. As a result of tee times I noticed the Legends courses are back in the rotation. My friend said it got to be too hard for the course superintendents to prepare a course for an 8:30 shotgun start and he also said the potential fights they had to stop on the driving range when someone felt a person spent too much time hitting balls. Those are valid points and I will give the WA the benefit of the doubt. The issue is how many courses don’t double tee? I can think of the Norman and Wild Wing who are in the rotation so if those courses and others have 100 golfers with tee times it will be a disaster. We picked up the Legends courses but I did see Thistle and Kings North are not in the rotation so those are two big losses.
    I apologize to the WA committee for my earlier comments but if they had addressed the situation and provided us honest reasons for the change I wouldn’t have been as critical. What I will hold them to is that everyone experiences an early time, 2 middle times and a late time. During the two Covid years I played they didn’t rotate the times and the lower flight got early times and the higher flight of the two got later times everyday. With golf genius you can mix it up very easily my club does it for all of our events. I have played in the WA for 16 years straight and play in their other events so I do enjoy them I just like some transparency.

    Billy Burwick

    Great points but as a newbie (2) this will be 3, The courses I play are less of a concern than the camaraderie and the people I meet. This also makes traveling with a group of people 100x more difficult and most likely more expensive. So While they might be making the golf courses happy they are not making a good portion of the clients happy.

    What time would be easier to prepare a golf course for a shotgun start if 8:30 is too early? 9:30? I would rather move the times back to accommodate the courses than spread everyone out tee time wise.

    Even my friend and I in the same flight are staying together, We could have tee times separated by 3-4 hours.
    Yet the course is an hour away. SOO 1 of us would either sit around for 4 hours or have to play driver and waste their time driving back and forth. So who does this benefit? Certainly not the Players of the WA.

    Sorry just venting. There is no easy solution.

    Henry Zeberkiewicz

    I have played in this tournament 38 times. I missed the first one because I did not know about it. I skipped 2020, the “covid” year. because I was in the high risk category. I won my flight one time. That was 2021 when they had tee times. I don’t know if tee times was a factor or I just happened to play to my potential for a change. Winning my flight and participating in Friday’s playoff was a memorable experience. That being said, I think tee times suck for the following reasons:

    1) Lack of or diminished camaraderie
    2) No skins game. After 2 rounds most players, including myself most years, are out of the hunt to
    finish in the money. A skins game, however, provides incentive to birdie the next hole no matter
    where you are in the standings. It’s just more fun.
    3) Carpooling. It can be a total nightmare. Twice that year I had to spend an additional 2 or 3 hours
    at the course waiting for my carpool partner to finish or him waiting for me to finish.
    4) They need to pair the leaders together for the last round. They used to do it so I know it is
    logistically possible.

    I think going to tee times is a deal breaker for me this year. I hope they return to shotgun starts in 2025 If so I will be one of the first to sign up.


    To shed some light… It was not a coin toss! Factors that players will care about, in no particular order:

    -it kept costs down. yes, even at the higher price entry fee.
    -higher tier courses more apt to host.
    -gives courses a fair chance to mow greens / cut fairways / stay ahead of the players. In shotguns, sometimes this meant taking the day off.
    -Hectic at bag drop, scoring, driving ranges, food service (lose all personal touch with a shotgun)

    Participants were fairly split on the responses from surveys.

    Those with single tee will remain a shotgun which is 5 courses. That was one thing we learned out of 2020. Won’t be anything past 9:30 on a double tee and of course it will be randomized to be early / late variety for everyone. Tee times have been and always will be random.

    We understand the downfalls, but they didn’t outweigh the positives we will see for both our course quality / service and the players. Should go without saying, but this decision did not get made without thoughtful consideration with many entities, including the participant surveys.

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