- September 10, 2021 at 9:42 pm #50295Harold TompkinsParticipant
Without rangers, it makes no difference! slow is slowSeptember 11, 2021 at 6:46 pm #50297BRUCE GUMBELParticipant
Pace of play was terrible. At River club, 9:33 tee time took 5 hours and 45 minutes. The group ahead of us had a hole open in front of them. Played with an individual that was in the group ahead of us and he stated that he was being held up all day. What a joke. Our local association handles it this way. PACE OF PLAY – A player shall be subject to penalty for unduly delaying play and/or not playing in
accordance with CDGA Pace of Play Guidelines. The highlights are listed below:
• If a group is out of position, the group will be notified and timed. A group is out of position when a
par 4 or par 5 hole is open before the group reaches the teeing area.
• Players have 40 seconds to play a stroke. Any time over 40 seconds is a “bad time.”
• The timing will start when the player has had sufficient time to reach the ball, and it is the player’s
turn to play and is able to play without interference or distraction. Time taken to determine
distance and select a club will count as time taken for the next stroke. On the putting green timing
will begin when the player has had a reasonable amount of time to lift, clean and replace the ball,
repair damage that interferes with the line of play and move loose impediments. Time spent
looking at the line of play from beyond the hole and/or behind the ball will count as part of the
time taken for the next stroke.
• Timing ceases when a group is back in position and players will be advised.
Penalties for failure to comply with the policy
• Penalty for first breach: Verbal warning
• Penalty for second breach: One-stroke penalty
• Penalty for third breach: Two-stroke penalty applied in addition to penalty from the second breach
Needless to say it took that one player about 2 minutes every putt. VERY LONG DAY.September 12, 2021 at 8:04 am #50298Bob NewmanParticipant
Bruce, all you stated is correct. Without people with the knowledge of the proper way to time pace of play, it will not accomplish anything. When I first started playing on the world am, we would actually see the host pro on the course monitoring pace of play. Sadly, the local pros and host clubs are using us as just a cash cow. They tell the WA that they do this and also that the course is on top to shape just to be allowed to host. My group was told we were out of position(by a starter) as we were approaching a greens. We finished and proceeded to the next hole to wait to hit our tee shots. This same clown was on the next fairway as we waited to hit into the green. Had not a clue as to how to monitor groups. It is impossible for the WA staff to control the courses. They have to rely on the courses to be truthful that they are following the guidelines the WA request. We pay to much money for the courses to treat us this way. I am not finding fault with Scott and the WA STAFF but I honestly believe the courses are taking advantage of the situation. The last 3 years, I have had 2 courses each year that I would not spent money to play. I will also note that one of those courses(Founders) was in better shape than I expected, but I could see the signs that it was headed back to its ugly self. I wish it was some way that the Myrtle Beach Golf Association would look at the complaints that some courses get and ban those courses from hosting. But I know the answer to that. I think I will just start playing on events that I know which courses I’m playing before I send in my money. I’ve played in this for 17 years and have enjoyed it every year, but that’s it for me.September 12, 2021 at 11:37 am #50300Christine ReminesParticipant
Pace of play has to be addressed. NUMBER ONE!!! With this size of tournament I don’t think World Am had the ability to enforce pace of play penalties. They would have to have their own rules staff out on each course. I don’t think World Am has the means to have volunteers to come out and act as spotters on holes with blind shots to help locate balls. Doubt they can send their own rangers without stepping on toes at courses. Do we need smaller flights with tighter handicap ranges? My flight had like 16.4 to 40 I think. I know higher handicap players learn from playing with better players. But is the time for this during a tournament? I know this slowed my flight down. I’m not setting the world on fire with my game but I try to be competitive witin my handicap and love tournament golf. Do we offer gross divisions broken out by handicap ranges like 18.2 to 21.4 for women like at tournaments I play? Maybe this could be a new tournament offering Scott? Gross broken out by handicap. No faking your game.
Shotgun allows everyone to play under the same weather conditions but does cause crowding on the range.September 12, 2021 at 12:42 pm #50301Ed GuertinParticipant
I have read all the comments here and both sides have some very good points.
Myself, I will always stand firm on tee times as most all tournaments do.
I have played the shot gun side of it here at the World Am for years and that format is a not a good tournament format.
For years during the shotguns I have not been able to warm up as I refuse to wait in line for a bay. On the practice greens I put a tee in just to get a tee for speed and grain. I don’t want to say that the guys who bring a full bag of clubs to the range are ignorant but come on, it’s to warm up, not dial in every club in your bag! That is for other times, not warm ups.
But, we have those guys here who spent almost an hour doing it!
Pace of play is not the result of either format. More often than not it’s the result of an errant tee shot from someone who refuses to hit a provisional because “he can find it” and doesn’t even care about the 3 minute rule, that’s for the Pro’s.
My conclusion, you can’t satisfy everyone but a tee time format is a tournament format…September 13, 2021 at 7:54 pm #50303William ZeoliParticipant
I understand there are different reasons to want either of these two scenarios, but as for myself, shotgun is the way to go. I happen to be one of those guys who is the “leader” of a group. In the past three years I’ve gotten 10 new players into the tournament. We are all of different ages and handicap levels. With shotgun, I could map out a spread sheet so that we could share cars with two or even three players going in the same direction. This year with 12 guys we had to rent 7 cars. 7 cars !!. In addition, our getting together after the rounds was virtually non existent. Some guys had 7:45 tee times up North nd others had 9:30 down south. Lok, I realize many of the guys are hell bent to win , good for them. We play all year, most of us several times a week. So you only got to hit 3 putts or two drives before tee time? . Jesus, how many of us get out of our cars at home, put on our shoes with the trunk open and go to the first tee with 3 minutes to spare. We actually had three guys move up in flights just because of the tee times and car rentals. We’ve discussed this at length and some of us are questioning playing next year.
For us, much of the fun disappeared.September 15, 2021 at 1:43 pm #50306ron hubertParticipant
But it really dose not mater if we are going to play 6 hour rounds.
Aberdeen tee time 9:45 hit the club house at 3:30September 21, 2021 at 2:01 pm #50318ALAN CaswellParticipant
I can see where there are valid points for both.
Tee times “in theory” should be more favorable as it allows every player in his/her flight to start on the same hole. Tee times also limits the number of players on the driving range “warming up” before the round. Although I have watched guys hit 3 buckets before playing. AMAZING!!! And yes, tee times make it easier to use the rest room before you tee off as there are fewer people.
Shotgun starts, on the other hand, give you a chance to mingle with everyone in your flight before and after the round. Shotgun starts make it much easier on those running the skins games, and if you haven’t ever run a skins game, then you have no comment. It is much more involved than you can imagine.
Also, shotgun starts allow for the top 16 or 20 players to play together the last day so you know where you stand every step of the way.
The tournament probably won’t make changes to the 4th round to allow that using tee times because it makes extra work for them. I also agree that “tee times make it feel like a real tournament.
The biggest reasons for slow play, I think, are…
1. players are not familiar enough with the rules of the game. Way too much time is spent looking for lost balls etc. Once you exceed the 3 minutes allowed for looking for a lost ball and you keep looking, there should be a penalty imposed.
2. The courses should be providing Marshalls at each course to police the pace of play. This should be mandatory. No exceptions.
Playing at your home course with your friends is much different for most than playing true tournament golf with rules. This is a great tournament. I have enjoyed it for 20 years. Pace of play , not tee times or shotgun starts is, and most likely will always be the main topic of discussion. See you next year!!!March 31, 2022 at 11:05 am #50576greg messerParticipant
Shotgun. Best option for realities of 3500 players. It’s a golf course, you know what hole you’re starting on, warm up for that hole! Carpooling, even with guys in same flight, is huge pain with tee times; weather, who wants that last tee time and 99 heat and humidity…had a couple older guys nearly collapse on course last year. Pace of play, if a club won’t enforce it with penalty to offending player after 1 warning, ban the the club the next year. Double the penalty to guilty player after 2nd penalty. My state golf association enforces it, every tournament is 4 1/2 hours…period. If you’re concerned about covid, wear a mask and don’t congregate..easy enough. Mr. Newman, it is an outing with competition, unless the host courses are going to put forward rangers on problem holes and and least 4 pace of play rangers on the course and enforce pace of play. You want a pure tournament experience, play in State or USGA sanctioned tournaments, even orgs like Golfweek leagues can’t create a pure tournament experience, and they are tighter run than the WAHT!
Range, only allow a 25 ball bag. Warm up don’t try to fix your game before a round. Practice green, same thing, get a feel for speed and get off of it. you’re mentally killing yourself other wise.
I enjoy the WAHT experience, Tee times just make it unfair to whoever gets the last half of front or back nine.March 31, 2022 at 3:12 pm #50600Rick KimbrellParticipant
It has been decided. SHOTGUN
Thank you World Am.April 1, 2022 at 3:08 pm #50602William ZeoliParticipant
After several years of attendance, my group of 10-12 has decided not to play this year. There are two main reasons, one of which is the tee time aspect instead of 9aam starts. With 9 am starts we could assign three guys to a car , all going in approx the same direction. With tee times all over the place, we had to rent 5 cars last year to ensure we would all make tee times and not have someone sitting at a course for two hours waiting for their tee time or waiting two hours after the round for their ride to pick them up.
The days last year were 8-9 hours, door to door. Add to that the cost of car rentals at MB Airport. Speaking of airports, we only have one option form Boston to MB non stop and that is Spirit. Yuk ! And even that “cheap” air line is close to $500 RT this year considering baggage and clubs We have been flying to Charleston on Jet Blue, non stop, but that flight is now almost double what it was.
Sorry, we loved it but just cannot justify everything and tee times are a part of everything.April 1, 2022 at 4:17 pm #50603Scott T. – World AmKeymaster
Bill- it’s shotguns this year. Seeing airfare under $300 for 1 stops on delta / AA. Hope to see you back.April 1, 2022 at 8:44 pm #50604Kevin FinnParticipant
Definitely tee timesApril 2, 2022 at 8:54 pm #50605Bob NewmanParticipant
Mr. Messer you have one thing correct, it has turned into an “outing “ but that is not what it is advertised as. I will not take the time to explain what has happened since 2005 when I first started playing. But what I have expressed in previous posts. The main reason is not the WA STAFF fault. I don’t think they get the support needed from the Host Clubs. It has been years since I have seen a pro on the golf course. One ranger used to ride the course and when he saw a gap, he informed the group and about 3 holes later you would see the Pro. But I regress. Since I have seen how it has become an outing and played with several that are not interested in it being a tournament, I have decided I am not playing this event any more. I’m going to spend my money on playing better course at different venues. The last 3 years I have only played 2 decent course each year. Once again the WA STAFF was led to believe that their course was in playable condition and it was not. The staff can not inspect each course, they have to rely on the courses to be truthful.
I understand that this may be turning around as I read that some of the northern courses were not participating this year. I hope the Wa has gotten a hand on this now and return to the old days. JMOApril 4, 2022 at 11:30 am #50606joseph healyParticipant
yes, but it still wont help!!!
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