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  • in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47090

    Shealy, I was a tournament director here at home for 5 years and on the board for another 5 years. I know a thing or two about running tournaments. I ran some of the best County Am’s that our area had ever seen. And after I stepped down it was just a matter of 3 years that our Association stopped functioning. I knew it was going to happen after I left the position. That being said, it was more about real golf than handicap crap. We use to have 3 divisions. AA(Scratch) A(5.0 to 9.9) and B(10.0 and above) when I took over. After taking over and getting little to no help from our board members I had to make changes to survive. Dropped the B flight since many were shooting A flight numbers. And it was a lot better pay outs when I only had to split the pot in half. If a player had to be moved we moved them up. We played the toughest courses from the tips in our area. A couple 7,000 yard courses and 6,800 for our County Am usually. I think I had the largest Scratch Division the years I ran it. Over 50%. Got a lot of college kids to come out and play with some of the best amateur golfers in our area. And the key is I made it affordable. I left office with $1,000 to the good in the account. Pretty good for absolutely no sponsorship money the last few years.

    That’s the biggest issue I see in the World Am. The payout sucks. We pay $535 to have the chance to win a $600 gift card? Thankfully that’s not the whole reason we come here. Cause I haven’t placed anywhere near enough to recoup that kind of money. We all enjoy the competition or we wouldn’t be here. Fact still remains, they need to do something more for us players than keep driving the price up. But, do you really think they are doing this for free? And yet I can assure you they aren’t losing money or they wouldn’t keep doing it.

    in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47087

    Brian Shealy, You can stop the butt kissing. Scott & the WA committee have nothing or at least very little to do with handicap adjustments. It’s all done by a computer program that spits people out that the program red flags. That’s all it does. And you’ll get a deaf ear trying to talk to the committee if your adjustment or DQ was warranted or not. Played in this event for 17 years, never won my flight. Got adjusted so severely after the 1st round in 2018 that they made it so I couldn’t compete to win my flight. If I put up a number even close to net par the next 3 days I know I would have been DQ’d. They have some crazy idea that you can’t play good in Myrtle Beach. The greens are over twice the size of ours at home and you can stick your shots on the green. Fairways on many of the MB courses are over twice as wide as I play at home, too. I get off the fairway at home, I’m behind a tree. There aren’t many course that I’ve played in the World Am that I can say that. If I block one off the planet, well, I’m going to have problems.

    in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47068

    Tommy, well aware of the T scores effect, and yet, it has never had an effect on my handicap. I have never had an “R” for reduction on my handicap. Here is info for that process.

    Q: How come some reductions don’t take effect until months after the T-scores were recorded?

    A: Remember, the first step in the process is the best 10 of 20 calculation. The gap between this figure and the two low T-scores will remain narrow as long as the T-scores are among the 20 most recent rounds. In many instances, it is not until they work their way out of the most recent 20 that the gap widens and a reduction kicks in.

    Q: I just seem to concentrate better in tournaments and produce lower scores. Why should I be penalized?

    A: Baloney! The System is based on the concept that a golfer is going to attempt to score his very best on every hole of every round played. It does not contemplate a golfer who can call upon a “higher gear” at will. The problem with the logic of such a golfer is that they want their handicap based on the higher scores, which would give them a distinct advantage over the rest of the field when they call upon their “A” game. Why do such golfers object to an Index that reflects this “A” game?.

    My thoughts are that in the last 17 years that I have played in the World Am I have never posted more than the 1 even par round. Should you be effectively taken out of the running for that one round? Me and the other guy never even came close to that the next 3 rounds. I would have probably placed 3rd that year and he wouldn’t have placed at all. All the other rounds for both of us were 82 and higher. We didn’t set up the course. We didn’t make the par 5’s set up so you had a chance to reach them in 2. And I don’t even have a 3 wood in my bag. One par 5 was less than 175 in with a decent drive. I’m definitely not a fan of the “retroactive adjustment process”. It’s almost like telling the New England Patriots that they didn’t win last years Superbowl because Robert Craft got a hooker. Sorry Bob, we are going to have to take points off the board for that.

    So in the efforts that the World Am is trying to make to curb the sandbagging, it has also taken out many of the players who don’t bag. And then the adjustment process has also brought into play the idea that a guy who has a good round going has to back off and throw a few strokes in the end. It’s gotten out of hand, really. Like I said, I’ve never won a flight before and probably never will. That’s why I always go into this event telling myself that I’m already out of it before I even hit the first tee. Just relax and go play golf and have fun. They can keep their gift card and salad bowl or give it to someone else that needs it more than I do.

    in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47061

    Like I said, Scott, you personally don’t even have anything to do with the adjustments. You let your computer do all the adjusting for you. I’m pretty sure you had me at a 6.0 for the tournament last year. Not sure where you pulled up a 6.5, but, during July and August I usually start playing my best golf. Reason being is that I have already played 10 or more tournament rounds by then. Did I score exceptionally in those tournaments? Probably not. They are from the tips and all our events around here are at scratch. So it’s not likely that I will ever place in any of these events because I’m usually around a 5 to 6 handicap playing against guys that are on the plus side of the handicap. Played one day with the kid who won the Cleveland Am Qualifier. On the 476 yard par 4 this kid hits driver gap wedge which he holes out for eagle. The kid is way beyond my skill level. But I’ve played in enough tournaments that playing with these guys doesn’t rattle me. Although I do remember taking a 7 there. So I feel really comfortable playing with guys of my own skill level. My friend on the other hand gets wound so tight he can’t swing like he normally can. Then he blows 90+ on his tournament rounds.

    Fact – You play the 49 and under way too short. There really isn’t a reason that you should move us up to the white tees. I can almost guarantee you that the majority play 6600+ all year long. Heck, Bobby Perkinson who won the WA back to back told me he played 6500 yards back home then. You guys had them at under 6000. Let him put wedge in his hand all day long and it’s lights out. Back then anyways. I know he’s had some back issues and we are all getting older.

    The other fact which you mistakenly brought out, my handicap didn’t go down to a 4.9 from one score. That’s completely false. You of all people should know your handicap is based on 10 scores. My handicap did not come down just because of one World Am score. I had 71 at Thistle and 70 at Pine Lakes on my handicap card at the same time and I didn’t drop below 4.9. The difference between an exceptional round and a good round is pretty simple. Making birdie putts. Had I not made any birdies both of those rounds I would have shot 75. And there are plenty of rounds that I play that I walk off 18 with no birdies on the card.

    And I guess your definition of exceptional and mine are way off. Exceptional to me is a round in the 60’s. Thought I was going to have one the week before the World Am in the Summit County Senior Am. Ended up at 72, one over. Made bogey on the last 3 holes and was in good position on 7 and 8 and hit 4 iron over the stick on 9. That was the death pin. Long is wrong. Hooked the other two approach shots. That’s golf. You never know what’s going to happen every time you tee it up.

    The last fact I know for sure is that I will never win the flight. If I have a good round going I’m not the type to throw a few shots just so I don’t fall under your retroactive adjustment. Playing in the Championship round really isn’t that interesting. At least in the Mesquite Am if you win the whole thing you win free entry into next years event. Not just a salad bowl for your effort. Is that really too much to ask that you guys don’t get so cheap that can’t offer them that? Free entry to the winner?

    in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47052

    Here’s the main problem with the handicap system and the way the World Am sees it. Last year I had an exceptional round during the World Am. And I wasn’t the only one in my flight. And there were several right behind us. They didn’t get touched that day. Me and the other guy were effectively taken out of the competition. They took 11 shots off us for the week after day 1. The next 3 days I shoot my normal numbers. If I shoot another number they deem even close to my handicap, and I wished I did, they would have DQ’d me.
    Now, for a lot of us or at least for myself, I play weekend golf. That’s it. When we come to Myrtle Beach early and play every day you should start to play a little better, right? Well, the computer program that the World Am uses doesn’t allow for that. There is no one on the World Am staff that really gives a crap about your of my handicap. The computer does all the figuring for them and spits out anyone that shoots what it deems an exceptional number. What it doesn’t catch is numbers players. Those that know that they need to back off on round so they don’t get adjusted. It’s unfortunate that they try to explain to us, the players that know what real golf is that “it’s impossible for a 5 or 6 handicap to shoot a par round of golf”. Talk about a statement that’s totally erroneous. Last year I had two even par rounds on my handicap card at the same time. My handicap never went lower than a 4.9 during that time. Funny thing was that they were both Myrtle Beach courses that I shot par on. Thistle and Pine Lakes.
    Little secret, some of your Myrtle Beach courses aren’t as tough as the courses I play here at home. Why do you think Tiger Woods seemed to win more than anybody here in Ohio. Because we have the toughest courses here. As much as people say they love to play on fast greens, well, not if your chipping most the day or you just aren’t hitting your irons that good. And the putter isn’t always your friend.
    Here is the other factor I have to laugh about. I play my courses here at home at around 7,000 yards. You guys put us at 6300 to 6600 yards every year. So if I end up playing better or exceptional is there really any doubt as to why? I didn’t create the handicap system. It’s a pretty flawed system for the most part. If you put a 4 handicap from Pawley’s Plantation vs. a 4 handicap from Possum Trot, I’m pretty sure that they aren’t very equal. Although the handicap system says they should be.

    in reply to: Gross Flight for 60 to 69 #47038

    Father time has a way of creeping up on us, Ricky. I’m 50 but stayed in the 49 and under. So I had to play to a reduced WA handicap and I’m giving up a lot of years(my choice) to the competition. My friend ended up in 3 so it worked out best. I play in a tournament here at home at the end of the month that pays out the top 5 handicapped and gross. You only get the highest prize. It’s a nice way to do the event.

    The WA has a just for fun group. What if, instead or addition to, they do a play together flight so the groups of friends that want to play together and still compete can end up in jumbled flights. This way they get the best of both worlds. It’s still competitive. It’s just that you could have a 20 handicap playing against a 5. It’s all the same, really.

    in reply to: How do you get DQ'd playing within your handicap #47034

    My friend earned his 9 one day and took one other. And he was in 3. There were quite a few 9’s in our two flights. It happens. I had to ESC 2 holes during the tournament. Two triples. That being said I was out of it after day 2. I did have the low round with another friend of mine, Justin Gorby, day 4. And we were playing together. I started the day double, bogey, par and triple bogey. Not the start you would have wanted but finished with a 76. You just never know when golf is going to happen. Felt like hockey the rest of the week.
    My nephew was in flight 10 at a 22.8. I think he only took 2 or 3 9’s for the week. He told my friend that he can play in his flight next year! That was funny!

    in reply to: skin game #47033

    Just a side note. I heard flight 1 and 2 had a separate skins pot. Why? It seems the scratch division was afraid that the handicap division would take their money. They wouldn’t let them play in their game. Don’t understand that one. Why wouldn’t you want more money in the pot?

    in reply to: skin game #47032

    88.5% on day 4. 86.2% every day. 38 of 44 in 3 and 39 of 43 in 4. We had at least 75 players every day. Flight 3 & 4 has always been one big pot. That being said, why change it? I only had one guy complain and his theory was that more people win in 3 than 4 every year. False! We aren’t that much different in handicap and everyone there has a capability to make birdies and eagles. Although everyone of our par 5’s this year seemed it had a pin tucked behind a bunker on the short side so there probably weren’t that many good eagle chances. You were either going to have to chip it in on the par 5’s or make a long putt. No one did. The only other good chance for an eagle was #10 at Sea Trail Jones, a par 4 over water that was about 265 yards to the pin if you dared. Making eagle from 140 yards out….. MONEY! James Nelson picked a good day to do that on day 4. Great shot, man!

    in reply to: skin game #47027

    Paid out over $7500 this week in flights 3 and 4. It was combined skins and their wasn’t a big advantage from flight 3 to 4. We had 3 skins pay out on day 1 for $500 a piece. 2 in flight 4 and me in 3. 4 skins worth $385 on day. 2 to 2 in the flights. Day 3 2 skins worth $760 with 1 and 1. Day 4 was 3 skins worth $1020+ with 2 players in 3 and the only EAGLE skin of the week was on #6 at Tidewater, a par 4 that he dropped in from 140 yards out. He was in flight 4. 12 skins paid out and 6 going to each flight. So if anyone felt they were at a disadvantage? I’m 50 and played in 3. There was another player I talked to that was 58. I’m sure we had more than the two of us that were over 49. Anybody know what that count was?

    in reply to: 2019 Tournament Skins Volunteers #46977

    Awesome, Lindy! See you Monday morning! I stopped at the bank and got change so my $100 is in! Skins sheets are ready and pay sheets are ready. Running it the same way it always is. Combined skins flight 3 and 4. One big pot. It’s a Myrtle Beach World Am Tradition!

    in reply to: 2019 Tournament Skins Volunteers #46959

    Oh…. and Jason called me a troll on here? I’ve been here since before you had hair on your sack.

    This is why Dan Westenbarger ran it best and runs it simple. Day 4 if no one wins a skin outright and because of the added time it would take to go through all the cards to find the holes with only two Birdies or Eagles, We make the rule that everyone who has stuck around in the event of all ties then he pulls names out of a hat to “SEND SOMEONE HOME A WINNER!” Simplify it to this or a putt and/or chip off for those who have stuck around and everyone will have to be fine with that. And I think they will.

    I’ve only seen it happen once. But when it did happen a rather poor choice was made. Don’t ever walk out the door on Thursday with money in the bag. When I ran it, I’m just your bank for the 4 days. I’ll take good care of your money. But your not getting it back unless you earn it. No refunds. Stick around on Thursday and we will send somebody home a winner.

    in reply to: 2019 Tournament Skins Volunteers #46886

    In case nobody else steps up, I have the pay sheets ready to go for Flights 3 & 4 which will be kept as a tradition, combined skins game like every year. It’s preferred that you pay on the first day $100 for the week. $20, $20, $20 and $40 on Thursday like normal. If you happen to forget you can pay on Tuesday for the rest if your in. We like to be able to hit a few putts and a few chips if at all possible. And I don’t see the need to collect every day. I’m not a babysitter. Ask mommy for a $100 bill and let the games begin!I know quite a few players from these two flights since I’ve been playing here for 17 years. I’ve run them before and use to swap years with George Wonica who ended up in flight 2 last year. His brother Ken is in flight 4. Anyone else want to step up and run it, by all means, I’ll hand it over to you. If you want help I will give you the sheets. If no one steps up I’ll do it. I’m now the Senior man of the group. Hit 50 back in May. At some point someone else has to take it over. My years are numbered. Heck, I almost died a couple years ago in Nov. 2016.

    Rules for 3 & 4 – I need to see a scorecard from each player in the skins game. If one responsible player turns in a scorecard for their group with last names and first initial it will definitely speed up the process. The good thing about the World Am app is that you could see hole by hole scores from everyone in your flight. The bad is I couldn’t see them in the next flight. So if we have to verify your score it can be done. The World Am Staff does want your scorecards in a timely manner. So a group card for our game is fine. CIRCLE BIRDIES AND EAGLES!!!!!! They can be missed if you forget to circle them. They might be money. help us out.

    If your leave Monday thru Wednesday you will be paid the next morning if you won. I might want to hold the money until the next morning to double check scores for you guys. And you can take that both ways, I don’t want to make a mistake. It would help if you stick around on Thursday if you have one holding up. If it gets cut and no winners the first 3 days are carryover. The last day if no one wins you guys are voting on drawing or putt off for the pot. 4 equal winners in drawing or a lengthy putt off to split. Have to be present to win only if there are no skins on Thursday. The money is not staying in the bag. If you win a skin on Thursday and you aren’t there, you better have wrote your number on my player sheet beside your name. I will get in touch with you and meet you at the 19th hole Thursday night. Safe travels and let the games begin!

    in reply to: 2019 Tournament Skins Volunteers #46883

    We had a 2-man tournament at one of our home courses that a guy got a hole-in-one. He’s buying everyone drinks and celebrating all to find out that he got cancelled out by a 14 year old that teamed up with his Step Dad that paid for their skins. So, the moral of the story is, when two people gets an eagle the result is the same…… CUT!!!!!!

    If I’m running flight 3 and 4 this year, Tim, I’m leaning toward a putt off on Day 4 if indeed there are no clear cut skins. It’s the only fair way to solve it. So for those in flight 3 and 4 if you stick around after the round and every hole gets cut then I guess your going to have to make the trip back to your car and grab your putter and we will put off for the money. It’s the only fair way to do it since nobody actually won a skin. Lets send somebody home a winner! Right Dan?!!!!

    But lets just hope it doesn’t ever happen. Again. But plan for it just in case it does. For those in flight 3 and 4 I’ll take a poll for those who pay for the week far a putt off or draw names from the hat. And that is the way we will go with it. It’s majority rules. Have to be present to win this way on the last day. So I would stick around just in case.

    in reply to: 2019 Tournament Skins Volunteers #46866

    I ran the skins in my flight for 5 years. And I haven’t seen anyone step up for 3 and 4 yet. On the last day, if you just say any eagles pay first is total B.S. That’s why you have to make rules that are equal for everyone. Any holes that only have two names on them, and that might end up being 3 or 4, those are the guys that get paid if it happens on the last day. Or you could just walk out the door with everyone’s skins money and say you donating it to your charity. That happened by the way on the last day a few years ago. Not a fan of that. This is why you collect score cards from every player just like you would a tournament back home. Everyone turns in a scorecard and you carefully go over every card. Someone doesn’t turn in a card, why? Is he protecting his buddies possible skin? If you want to run it dirty, that’s your business, Jason. I run it the right way. Or you make it easy on everyone and say Everyone throw their name in a hat and pull 4 winners. However you decide, make it right with everyone. And yes, you should have to be present to win on that scenario. Like I would tell the guys, I’m not leaving until there is no money left in this bag.

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