DQ’d

[Dennis Daley]

Thought I’d throw this out there and it may be pulled down but does anyone know and want to comment on how the leader of the WA final day tournament last year get DQ’d? Some of this is curiosity and some is I don’t want it to happen to me if I ever get that far ( highly unlikely).

[Billy Burwick]

They DQed like the top 2 or 3 people didn’t they but not the overall winner who was a High cap who had 4-5 good rounds.

[Christopher Rainey]

Hi, to clarify, I had 2 good rounds under Par, and 2 mediocre rounds, see the gross and net rounds below. They usually will take a closer look at players who shoot under Par (net) for 3 or more, or all of their rounds. We only played 4 rounds (not 5) last year due to the inclement weather on the 4th day. I was very lucky to win, and would be in the same boat as everyone else if the leader didn’t triple Bogey the 18th hole on the final day. They run a pretty tight ship, and know that most players will not shoot under their handicap for more than a couple of rounds. Sandpiper Bay was an easy course, compared to something like Caledonia, King’s North, etc. All the stars have to align in order to actually be near the top, I normally play smart and just try to keep the ball in play. As far as Dennis’ question, I had heard a few people commenting on it, and have to assume that the committee felt his score(s) were not accurate relative to his current handicap.

Christopher Rainey
Past Scores
Year Round Hdcp Gross Net Rank Course
2023 1 26 94 68 2 Sandpiper Bay Golf & CC
2023 2 27 103 76 2T Founders Club at Pawleys Island
2023 3 31 107 76 1T Arcadian Shores
2023 5 29 99 68 1

[Scott Porter]

The WA staff have an almost impossible task of monitoring over 3000 players and identifying the legitimate handicap players from the one who are not. Sometimes people just get caught in the algorithm bracket of just playing too well for their handicap history. However, their determinations are not made just on a gut feeling, they have 40 years of armature playing statistics and PGA probability statistics that they make the decisions on. I have had friends get DQ’ed, and in both cases they just played above their handicap history for too many consecutive rounds. This event is truly monitored and that is why I have played in it the last 12 years.

[Bob Newman]

It’s based on your differential for the course that day more so that net scores. You beat your differential twice(which you should only do around 3x per 20 rounds), then they probably will be looking at you.

[Christopher Rainey]

Correct on the differential, I drew some of the easier courses in Myrtle, so like I said, many things have to align in order to actually come out on top. Here is a snippet from an article from New England Golf, which for obvious reasons, I wasn’t a big fan of. They were so nice, looking to do an interview, then wrote what I thought was a very biased article, which in the USA is fine, however when I tried to reach out to them, they would never even respond back to me despite many e-mails and texts to share my point of view, I guess that’s why some people are not big fans of the Media. I have a feeling we’ll meet again down there this year, so I’ll be able to give them my honest opinion, lol. Anyway, here is their opinion on why he was DQ’d, and an answer to Dennis’ original question above. The full link to the article is at the bottom. Radley’s scores in 2020 when he won were 80 net 71, 80 net 73, 79 net 72, 87 net 78, and 78 net 71 on the final day, so you can be the judge and jury.

Rainey, a 57-year old businessman and avid golfer, was crowned champion on a picture-postcard-perfect day in the heart of the “Grand Strand,” after posting a 4-under par net score of 68. Just a few minutes before Rainey posted his 4-under score, World Amateur Tournament Director Scott Tomasello huddled with his staff and made the decision to disqualify Harry Radley, who was leader in the clubhouse after posting a 7-under par score of 65. Harry Radley, 62, from Indianapolis, Indiana won the event in 2020.

Radley claimed to maintain a 10 handicap and won Flight 30, the Mid-Senior division for men aged 60-69. Tournament officials were red-flagged by Radley’s playing partners who were “stunned” with his overall playing ability as an alleged 10 handicap. One player in the group said he thought Radley should own a 1 or 2 handicap. After the front 9 Radley was leading the tournament with a 4-under par and in complete control of his game. Tournament officials quickly investigated and DQ’d him after he signed for the 7-under net score.

https://newengland.golf/sandbagger-label-shadows-2023-myrtle-beach-world-amateur-handicap-winner-christopher-rainey/

[Bob Newman]

Christopher, what was the differential on each day for the course( rating& slope in a formular which I can’t remember right now) and determines what he actually beat that day. And on another note, Mr Radley was once a scratch golfer, I remember from years past on the BB. IF ONE CAN PLAY shots like a scratch golfer, then one might be able to manipulate his Index at will. Listen to the sound the ball makes coming off the irons, and you will hear the scratch golfer there. Can’t be hidden. JMO. I have been trying for years to beat the system but at the end of each round, I just can’t bring myself to cheat. But I do enjoy attempting to play better than I’m capable. Love the game that I can’t beat.. also a sticker for the rules,

[Billy Burwick]

So @ChrisRainey You want me to believe it’s more likely that YOU shoot -4 as a 31 cap than Harry Radley shoots -7 as a 10? I wonder what is more likely?? It’s Not your -4.

Congrats on the win but you as a 31 cap shooting -4 in a Tournament is very very Sus Never mind you did it TWICE!

Good to know they TRY to police the Caps but how they don’t adjust someone shooting under Par 2x as a 31 is Mind Boggling.

• This reply was modified 2 years ago by Billy Burwick.

[Christopher Rainey]

Billy: You are entitled to your opinion of course, with a 31 handicap (they adjust everyday based on what course you are playing, 72 plus 31 is 103, I only shot a 99 gross on the last day, which is 4 under, he shot 7 under, and he was a 10 handicap, and was a scratch golf a few years back. I would never really question someone I don’t know, so I’ll leave it up to the committee to make those decisions. He shot 71, 72, 72 and 65 as a 10 handicap. Some people agree it’s harder for a 3 or 4 handicap to shoot a few strokes under than it is for a higher handicapper to sink a few lucky putts and come in under par. For us higher handicaps, the tee boxes are pushed up, making it a little easier than when playing from the normal white men’s tees. I’ve played both Sandpiper Bay and Grande Dunes many times over the years, Sandpiper is an easy course, especially when the tees are up, and you have to know where to miss on Grande Dunes, instead of trying to go for it and pull off the miracle shots. No matter what I say, there will be people that won’t believe I won fair and square, and that’s fine, since I know I did. No one mentions the 103 & 107 I shot the other 2 days Looking forward to defending the title this year, and maybe we’ll run into each other at the 19th hole and can share a cocktail or two after the rounds.

[JOHN HERNDON]

I’ll be honest that when I saw the final score and the handicap attached to it, it was a little wild to see. I remember a woman won it in 2022 with a 22 HDCP and shot 89/67 to claim the title. We had a guy in our flight(Flight 3 I believe) get DQ’ed on Wednesday before the round started because he had played too well. He was also the guy who was running our skins game and was honestly a super nice guy. I’ve played with guys that played well in certain rounds to have dynamite blow up on them in a later round. I’ve even played with guys who knew they were being watched because of what they shot in the opening round compared to their handicap. We had a guy 2 years ago sitting at NET -7 after the 1st 2 rounds and they DQ’ed him because someone contacted his home club and found out he was either back to back or 3 time defending champion of said club. The laughable part of all of this is we’re playing for a $600 gift card to the PGA Superstore. It’s not an invitation to a Korn Ferry event. I’m way too competitive to sandbag and play bad on purpose. I’ve been playing this game for 35 years and I’ve shot even par numerous times while also looking like a toddler with their first set of clubs and not even wanting to see the card at the end of the round. If anyone sandbags to win a gift card, have at it. Your moral compass is different than a lot of others. My best friend was playing in a different flight and had a guy in his final foursome wanting to keep his own score. Everyone kind of laughed at him when the round was over with because his card showed 9 strokes difference than what was tallied for him. How is that even possible? He broke down and said he just “really wanted to win this thing”. Dear Lord. This is what it comes down to?

[Billy Burwick]

@ChrisRainey I want to apologize I am by no means accusing you of sandbagging Just saying the odds of Mr Radley shooting a better score are much better than yours.

My integrity is more important to me than winning and I am really going just to have fun.

Chris If I see you at the 19th hole I will buy you the 1st round!

[Christopher Rainey]

Billy & John: No worries, I don’t let any of this really bother me. Same goes for me, if I want something bad enough at the PGA Superstore, I will just go ahead and buy it myself. When you tell anyone you have a 25+ handicap, you get the bug eye, where people can’t even imagine a handicap that is actually that high, much less being able to play a good round and be competitive in a tournament. I’m a stickler for the rules, and always count every stroke, hence the reason my handicap is higher than most, in addition to the fact that I am happy if I am able to break 100. Some people do well in a tournament environment, while others choke and can’t seem to keep things together for 18 holes. We have that 1 guy in our crew that plays well here in PA, but shits the bed every time we play in Myrtle. On the final day at Grande Dunes, we had a 7 handicap playing with us, and I think he came in dead last out of all the finalists at Grande Dunes, so I guess it just depends on how your game is that particular day. Our small group will be at the Hangout on Sunday evening, stop by and say hello, you’ll be able to tell which table we are at, lol.

[Ed Guertin]

Christopher Rainey, I saw that you mentioned the media, there is one thing that was pointed out to me a long time about that, “If you own the symphony, then you can choose the music that is being played!”. Was true then and still true today. just sit back and enjoy the tournament, it really is a lot of fun…

[Christopher Rainey]

Ed: Exactly, 1st time in front of the “media” so to speak, sometimes you turn into a Chatty Kathy, and then they have a field day with it. Printing something without giving a person a chance to respond sometimes give the press/media a bad name. No biggie though, I’m glad that I was able to play well enough to win, not really concerned about the opinions of a few salty folks.

[Raymond Blank]

Guys. It has happen to me before. I shot a 79 at one of Gary Players courses and got hammered
I been looking for that swing ever sense. lol
See ya soon Ray Blank

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