- August 2, 2021 at 12:22 pm #49404William Aleshire Jr.Participant
Unfortunately, in flight 9 last year(2020 World Am)… I learned that you should keep a separate scorecard of all participants in your group per round and or maybe even take a picture of the completed card.
Last year during the 3rd round; I (Player#1) was scoring for Player #2. After each hole I would verify the score with Player #2 before entering it on the official card. We of-course also reviewed a second time at the end of the round.. With this system I had handed player #2 a clean card ie..No erase marks etc.. We both signed and player #2 went on his way.
That same afternoon, I was called by a WA rules member……
Oddly enough I happened to actually be at the convention center when the WA rules member called. So headed over the the rules table and was able to see the actual card player #2 turned in. To my surprise… The once clean card had erase marks equaling a 2 stroke reduction (AKA points shaved) after the card was signed.
The WA rules member also contacted the other member in our group (player #3) who happened to keep a separate full scorecard with all of our scores per hole. So, With my verification of handing in a clean card and Player#3’s full record of the round; the stroke shaving player #2 was DQ’ed.
The thing was that this person would have been sitting pretty in 3rd place going into the (4th)final round; and only 3 or so strokes back if they had just been honest and not tried to shave points.
So my advice is to either keep a separate card of the entire group/round or if you can take a picture of the fully signed card.August 2, 2021 at 12:51 pm #49405
That’s why I always fill mine out with a Sharpie (odd color). I also want my score recorded on the official card and not transferred. Less chance of a mistake. The rules only require the score to be clearly legible. A cheater is going to cheat.August 2, 2021 at 3:42 pm #49411Jim KavanaghParticipant
It’s best to walk the cards to the pro shop and verify there, then turn in. I know we want to trust the integrity of other players, but it doesn’t hurt to verify and then there can be no questions. I have seen worse cheating than your situation at the WA.August 2, 2021 at 3:51 pm #49412
With it not being shotgun start it should be no problem for the hole group to go together into the pro shop. Also I have found with foursomes it is easier too keep your riding partner card and you can discuss the hole as you ride. You are also closer to them to help them if they need help getting a ball in play correctly.August 2, 2021 at 5:54 pm #49415Harry (The Hack) RadleyParticipant
Several years ago Jason Corum and myself was running 2 side events in conjunction with the WA. A player who entered those side events had a very good 1st day and picked up a prize from Jason. The WA gave him a 2 stroke reduction The problem was the following day he once again had an exceptional round which this time he was disqualified by the WA and thus qualified from jason’s tournament when he tried to claim the Cash prize again. My side event had different rules so I told him that he could stay in my event but he would have to play at a 6 stroke reduction giving him just enough rope to hang himself. You wouldn’t believe it the very next day he’d come in with another incredible score and when I told him he was disqualified he became all upset and started throwing punches to the point where he was thrown to the floor restrained and escorted out of the building. Now the worst part of it is I played a Friday after tournament and he had his wife come up and apologize on his behalf wasn’t man enough to come and apologize himself. This person is very well known on this message board and has posted many posts which I just roll my roll my eyes. I have never ousted him and I’ve always bitten my tongue as I will this time but he knows who he is. Perhaps one day he would be man enough to admit that he was wrong and apologized to me in person. The funny thing was the very next year he started off with another exceptional round and actually won his flight that year. If you looked at his handucap history for the year none of the rounds that he stated was legit and tried to win money with had never been posted to his handicap account from the year before amazing. Wouldn’t that constitute falsifying a handicapAugust 2, 2021 at 6:08 pm #49417Ed GuertinParticipant
I will be the first to admit we all make mistakes on a scorecard here and there. Myself, any write overs or erasures I initial that hole and have the fellow competitor also initial. I know it’s not foolproof but when turning in the cards I always ask the competitor to join me in case of questions…August 3, 2021 at 10:36 am #49423Jeffrey ToppParticipant
That’s pretty rare. I’ve never seen it in gross events, and I’ve played in many. And if it does happen, it certainly doesn’t happen at the top of the leaderboard. It’s hard to hide two strokes when you’re shooting around par.
But it’s not a whole lot different than cheating on a handicap or cheating on the course. My advice, just let it go. The most you’ll get in these events for winning is a pat on the back, and they have to live with themselves knowing they didn’t earn them.August 17, 2021 at 8:52 pm #49655Billy JohnsonParticipant
In my experience, short of blatant cheating…WA will not DQ someone. Having said that, the computer will retroactively take strokes away, because someone shot “too good”. I get their are tons of baggers out there. But my experience last year taught me that theirs nothing we can do, and that WA will do what they deem right/wrong…no matter the facts.
One of my rounds, a gentleman decided he didn’t feel like playing in the our threesome (of which he was scheduled to do so), and decided to play with a couple of his buddies because the 3rd member of their group didn’t show up. I confronted him, and the starter at the course about that. Nothing was done.
When I contacted WA after our round, they informed me that it was a violation and that he would be DQ’d. Apparently he was not….and his name continued to be listed in the rankings. He finished Top5…which meant he apparently collected his gift card for it.
Short of shooting multiple exceptional scores, or fudging a score…I’m sure what else can get anyone DQ’d. Especially when I was told that he would be. I just don’t know.
Good luck to all…August 18, 2021 at 3:20 pm #49681Rick KimbrellParticipant
JMHO, anyone who does not play in their assigned group should be Dq’d as soon as the WA Committee verifies that he/she in fact did that. If they are not DQ’d, it strikes at the heart of the integrity of this tournament.August 18, 2021 at 3:33 pm #49682Jeffrey ToppParticipant
@Rick – In any serious competition, like a state amateur, you are required to play in your assigned group. No exceptions.
That said, the WA appears to be geared more as a fun, social tournament. This is my first time, so I can’t say from experience, just from observation of the conversations. As there are no major rewards on the line, except perhaps a few gift certificates, I would let it go. Especially in the handicap divisions.August 18, 2021 at 4:04 pm #49684
It is advertised as a championship played like aUSGA TOURNAMENT. Not playing in the assigned order should lead to a DQ. NOT reporting to the committee that you played 2 balls is another DQ (we have been told by pro at start of a round that if you get the same score on both balls, don’t bother to tell them). We should be playing golf and not some other game in this tournament. JMOAugust 18, 2021 at 4:28 pm #49685Harry (The Hack) RadleyParticipant
That is right Bob, and in addition to that a player must declare what ball he wants to use should a ruling go in his favour.
We had this a few years back on a par 3 where a player missed the green and landed in a mulch pre existing garden and wanted a drop. I made him declare which ball he wanted to play should a ruling go his way. He stated the dropped ball. He then had to leave the original ball where it was and dropped a substitute ball chipping it onto the green about 10 feet. He then chunked the original ball out of the mulch rolling up the hill and going in for a birdie. He had to then play the dropped ball for 2 putts and a bogie. LOL he then had to hope like heck that the ruling went against him, which it did and was allowed to take the birdie.
YOU MUST DECLARE WHAT BALL YOU WANT TO COUNT BEFORE MAKING ANY STROKE AT EITHERAugust 18, 2021 at 6:56 pm #49696benny shepardParticipant
Play you best take no stupid gifts you may get lucky
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