Tee Times – Skins Games

[Ken Delaney]

During the 2020 WA tournament, we used tee times to help keep people separated. This made it difficult to run a skins game during flight competition. In our flight, one gentleman stepped up and did it anyway. He committed himself to longer days because of it, but we were eternally grateful to him to have a game.

Fast forward to 2024, here we are with tee times again.

So I ask all you knowledgeable WA’ers, if I were to run the skins game for my flight(s), what can be done to efficiently and accurately have a game without spending 8-10 hours at the course?? I know there is electronic scoring through the app right??

Suggestions, comments, etc

[Mike Hammer]

Hi,

I composed this back in February, but never sent it. Since you asked, I thought I would send now. I think it proposes a reasonable way to manage skins games with tee times, but does need a little help from the World Am staff.

Happy reading…

First, to all who have run skins games – Thank you! Your willingness to administer such adds greatly to the WorldAm experience. And, a special thanks to whomever ran the skins game in my flight in the COVID year with tee times. That showed true dedication.

Another thread on this bulletin board has covered well the good and bad with tee times. One obvious negative is that the skins game typically gets sacrificed due to complications in running it with tee times. Whereas I fully admire, respect, and am thankful for those who run skins games, I am not cut out for it myself. However, I enjoy that addition to the WorldAm experience so much, I thought I would try to come up with a scheme that would make it doable for those brave and sacrificial souls who would like to run the game, but struggle with the commitment and challenges in doing it with tee times.

So, here goes…

Basic premises:
• Sign up for the skins game is on Monday for all four days. No Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday entries. (Many games in the past have run like this anyway.)
• World Am staff will assist by scheduling skins guys’ tee times in the last 1 or 2 of the day. (Participants who want to run skins games can identify themselves similar to the way that partners can request close tee times for carpooling.) Having the last 1 or 2 times allows the skins guy to show up early on the first day for signing up participants, but is not required to do so the other days.
• Skins guy shows up on the first day 30 minutes to 1 hour before the earliest tee time to enroll participants. All interested in playing in the skins game have to sign up and pay one hour or so before the last tee time. With a late tee time, the skins guy will have a long first day, but will also get some time to warm up without the stress of running the game by setting a deadline for signing up.
• Participants give their cell phone numbers to the skins guy. The skins guy gives his cell phone number to participants. (The skins guy might want to give handouts with their cell phone number to participants.)
• Official scorecards are used for determining skin winners. Participants will take a picture of their official signed card if they have a birdie or eagle and text it to the skins guy. The skins guy will acknowledge receipt and compare the electronic images of the cards and determine potential skin winners. By having the last 1 or 2 tee times, the skins guy can verify potential winners by asking the course pro to view the winning cards. Using this approach, participants, particularly those with early tee times, do not need to wait around for hours to see if they won. Participants must be sure to circle birdies and double circle eagles.
• Skins guy determines winners and texts/calls winners with the good news. Arrangements are made as to whether the payout will happen the next day at the course or at the convention center. On the last day, it will have to be the convention center or potential winners can wait around until the skins guy has completed his work.

In summary, from the skins guy, participant and World Am perspectives:

• Skins guy
o Has to show up 30 minutes to 1 hour in advance of first tee time on first day.
o Will tee off in the last 1 or 2 groups every day. (Bright side – not having to get up at very early times on the last three days.)
o Gets score cards via text versus paper and confirms receipt of the image.
o Verifies winner cards with the club pro.
o Has to coordinate payouts with winners.
• Participants
o Must sign up and pay on Monday by 1 hour before the last tee time.
o Must take picture of official card and text to skins guy.
o Need not wait around to see if potential skins are winners.
o Must coordinate with skins guy for payout if a winner.
• World Am
o Provide a way for skins organizers to identify themselves and provide them with late tee times.

This suggestion covers basic logistical considerations resulting from tee times. Any additional special rules are up to the skins guy at each course.

Again, just suggesting to try to make more skins games happen.

Mike

[John Tantillo]

Just my two cents on how to run skins with tee times (full disclosure, I usually do not play skins):

– Reduce it to a 3-day skins game, final payouts are Thursday morning at the course. This is what they do for March Q School
– Use the official electronic scoring for skins from the app. You can call up individuals’ hole by hole scorecards on the app (I’m looking at last year’s hole by hole scoring right now for my last flight on the website).
– Let people send copies of their official scorecard to “claim” a skin, but the organizer still goes to the app scorecards to verify; this eliminates the historical problem where a skin doesn’t match the tournament

It would be really great if the tournament included a gross skins leaderboard on the app that included all players, then the organizers could go through and manually filter the results for only those that paid in. That would allow wallflowers like me to play the “what-if” game–haha

[Mike Sigmon]

I remember the skins guy in our flight that year had around a 10:30 tee time he got from the start of tee times to his tee time and maybe a few that got there early for tee times after 10:30. We were teeing off on 1 & 10 So on each tee box he had a paper where you could sign up if you wanted to get in the skins game and you had to pay the skins guy once you finished your round if you didn’t sign up before teeing off or after hitting your tee shot on your first hole you could not play skins for that day or round.
He also asked that you sign up for all 4 days. Best I can remember his sign up sheet had written across the top something to the following. He gave his cell number to people to text a picture of the signed score needed your signature and the person keeping your score must be signed by both and a total score added up before sending it to him.

Tee times for hole number 1 please print your name phone number ( cell ) my cell number 901-111-1111
NAME Cell Number TIME YOU SIGNED

Same thing as above on sign up sheet for people that were starting on hole number 10 it all really seemed to work out rather well if you did not hang around for the results and he texted you telling you that you won a skin on what ever hole you could get paid meet up with him at the 19th hole if you wanted by sending a text to him to get a time and place to meet or you could get it the next day before teeing off or after that round if you wish.

[Henry Zeberkiewicz]

Overall, I think the tournament was better with a shotgun start.

[Bob Newman]

I am thankful that I never enjoyed the skins. Thought it took away from the tournament guy spent more time talking to the players than the pro furnishing info about local rules in play. JMO and I love the tee times

[dan westenbarger]

I done the skins both years we had tee times.First year I had a middle time so I got as many people as I could before I teed off then went to the pro shop and asked if I could post a sing up sheet on the front door and they very gracious not only said yes but also took there payment for the whole week.The second year I was fortunate to have drawn a late time got there early got everyone singed up for the week.Both years I allowed guys to get in the game after the first day as long as they paid before the round.i stayed at the course every day until the end to collect cards and pay out winners.

[Robert Friend]

OK, here is what I want to know. Do the players who run the skin game for the flight take a cut of the proceeds? I have heard you need to tip these folks, and I know some have taken a cut off the top of the payout. What is the correct protocol? Is there one? Should the person running the skins game make this public before we hand over our cash? I am overly concerned because I have not only heard stories of shenanigans but know for a fact a fraudster ripped off a flight posing as a player and running away with the cash! All insights would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Scott Porter]

I ran the skins game in my flight the year of COVID when we had tee times, it really is not that bad. Below is the handout I gave everyone the day of the event so they would have a hard copy of the rules and my contact information. Also, during the signup process I would have everyone give me their cell number, so I had something to match up if they left that information off of their text. To answer one of the other questions about taking a cut, I do not. I can’t speak for everyone else, but I don’t, THAT does not mean I don’t appreciate a tip when someone does win. Once flights are set, unless someone else really wants to do it, I will run skins in my flight.

To make it easy on everyone, especially me, it would be great if everyone who intends to participate in the skins game can pay in full on Monday. This also helps in those rarest of occasions when the pot roles over from the previous day, if you did not participate on the prior day you cannot join on that day. Skins buy-in will be $20, $20, $20 & $40 for a total of $100. For ease of scoring, I will combine both flights into one pot; this should make for nice payouts.

Typical skins rules:
• Birdies or better on a hole to win a skin.
• Two birdies on a hole cuts the hole.
• Should there be a day that all skins are cut the pot will roll over to the next day.
• On the last day if all skins are cut, I will put all participants’ names in a hat and draw 5 winners to split the pot equally.
Any birdies turned in for scoring should be done as follows:
• Text me a picture of your official scorecard with all signatures. State in the text your name and hole birdie or better was scored on.
• All text for birdies to be scored need to be received by me no later than 5:00pm the day of the round Any text after 5:00pm will not be scored, this gives me time to score and notify winners in a reasonable time.
• All winners will be notified by text that night of their winnings and their money will be available for pick up the next morning.
• I will make sure to be at the course at least 30 minutes before the first tee time so everyone can get their money.
• On the last day I will stay at the course until play is over and make payouts at the course.

If you have any questions don’t hesitate to ask.
My Information:
Scott Porter
Cell – 804-637-8791 (This is the number to use for texting score card.

[Rick Kimbrell]

Robert Friend, I will try to answer your question(s). I have run flight skins games off and on for numerous years. Typically, if no one volunteered to do it, I would step up. I always bring player lists and printouts to run the skins just in case. I do not know of anyone, including myself, who did not pay the same as everyone else to participate. I also do not know of anyone, including myself, who took a cut from the skins pot. Now, saying that, both of those may have been done in flights I am not familiar with but I have never heard about it myself.
Yes, a person should make it public if they are taking a cut. And, if you don’t know the person running the game, ask.
The story about the guy taking the money and running…that is probably true but it was years and years ago. Best to know who is running the game and is that person in either of the flights playing on that course that day.
Tipping the guy running the game…there is no set rule about this. I have had guys who won money give me $5, $10, $20 and some guys just smile and take their winnings and don’t tip or even say thanks. Some people will buy me a drink. In one of the pre-WA skins game I used to run, I had a guy win $1000, take the money, no thank you, no tip, no drink…nada. Just the kind of guy he is/was.
Years ago, I saw an almost fight break out over a guy not tipping the skins guy and the skins guy was not involved in that almost altercation. It spilled over into the parking lot. That same incident led to years of bickering between the parties involved right here on the bulletin board. Personally, I thought the guy should have tipped but he chose not to. I was not involved in the argument but watched it unfold.
Also, about the skins games in other flights…one of my buddies who used to come was in the highest handicap flight. He ran the skins in that flight and he did not require birdies or better to win because in that handicap range a par could easily win a hole. He had lots of guys get in the game as a result of that.
Another thing about when I run skins…I run it for both flights playing the course that day. I refuse to do it for just one flight. Just not worth my time. If anyone complains, they can run it themselves.
Enjoy the WA. Hope to see you at 19th hole. I will “buy” you an adult beverage.

• This reply was modified 2 years ago by Rick Kimbrell.

[Rick Kimbrell]

Robert Friend…also, I can’t find you in the player search. Are you playing under a different name?

[Robert Friend]

Listed under Buddy Friend in player search. Thank you for your post.

[Bob Newman]

I don’t really care for the skins game. I play in skins at my club. Don’t win enough to ever be able to break even. I just don’t make enough birdies. And this is with people I know. I always thought that the skins guy just ran it to have a chance at winning some $$$. But after a couple years of getting in and actually winning a skin, I took my money and left it only after returning home and getting on the BB that I learned I should have tipped the guy. So I elected to not get in the next year. The final night at CC I heard from another guy that I won a skin that day, a hole out from FW for an eagle. Don’t honestly know if the guy was pulling my leg or what, but I have never gotten into skins again. With the number of DQ’s we see each year, who’s to say that some only come to get into the skins. JMO

[Ken Delaney]

Fellow WA’ers

I have run the skins games in my flight(s) for many years in the past. Always with another participant as a helper. I may still attempt to do this even though there are tee times this year (more work for me). And I thank all of you who came on this thread I started and commented suggestions, opinions etc, It will be helpful moving forward in 2024.

As for taking a cut, or tipping the skins guy, I will offer this as a veteran skins coordinator: I have never taken a cut off the top of the entry fees. We run the game so that there is one. It’s $100 for the week and if you are lucky enough to get paid, this will MORE than return your investment. Easily. Some of the smallest skins I have paid were almost double the cost to get in.

As for tipping, whether I was running the game or not, i highly recommend showing your appreciation towards whomever it is. That person is taking extra time, extra effort and not to mention making sure everyone’s money is safe until it’s all been redistributed on Thursday. For those newbies or anyone taking notes, I think 10% is a good place to start when considering how much you should tip. In my experiences, I have handed out skins for $200+ dollars and got back $40-$60. But I also gave people 4 figures, only to watch them walk away without so much as offering to buy me a beer. Now I know some of them may have been ignorant to the situation (and that’s ok) but MOST of the golfers should know.

Either way, I am not there to make money, but if tips help us with spending money (aka beer money haha) for the week, I think that should be totally acceptable by all.

Plus, I don’t want a reputation of being “psst, that’s the guy who didn’t tip when he won that big skin” lol.

Only 30 days left for me…

Cheers

[Ed Guertin]

I think that Scott and his staff should look at the possibility of taking over the skins and take a percentage of the pool for their effort. Their IT folks could write a program which could identify all the skins and be visible on line to all the players.
Fairness and consistency matters…

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